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This is a question regarding Vulkan's chapter tactics. To give my inquiry context, p.93 of the codex, Vulkan's entry says:
"If you include Hestan than all units in your army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead.... all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twinlinked."
Note that is says "all units in your army", not "all space marines in your army"
It also strictly says that all these weapons in your army count as twinlinked, says nothing about the model firing it.
So.... do allied battle sisters get twinlinked flame and melta weapons when allied with a Vulkan army.
Allied WH and DH are still "part of" a space marine army when used, as they are within the same points limit and FOC chart, and is allowed by codex rules.
Obviously witch hunters and dont have a 'combat tactics' special rule to lose, but the rules as written don't say that they dont gain anything, as again, it says "all units in your army"
Please answer if you have a page number / rule, something that will definitely answer the question. Although if you have speculation, with good reasoning behing it, I'd like to hear it too. Just bear in mind this is I guess a RAW question.
Knee-jerk reaction here. As you said, the sisters don't have combat tactics to lose, so they don't get this rule.
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Your Dreadnaughts dont have chapter tacticts to lose...yet they gain the bonus...
Anyways according to the adepitcon tournie faq (which is the biggerst tourney around here) the sisters do gain the bonus.....I cant come up with a good reason not to give them the bonsus either.
If someone wanted to rule lawyer about the chapter tactics that much, I'd just not play them.
Last edited by R3con; February 6th, 2009 at 18:56.
Yes, that's what it would seem like, which is why I was unsure if they were excluded to this.
However, I'll include the full special rule entry this time:
"Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you must choose which version will apply."
That's the rule for Vulkan from the codex verbatim. If you read very carefully what it says about weapons, I does not acutally preclude allies.
As it stands (by the special rule entry, RAW), all units in the army (the total army, marines and allies) lose combat tactics, whether they had it to begin with. So nobody in the army as chapter tactics. AND THEN, all [flame and melta weapons] "in you army" count as twinlinked.
It makes sense for me if they're not included, and at the same time it makes just as much sense if they are. I'm not arguing that it applies to them or that it doesn't. I'm just of the opinion that unless it says somewhere addressing this, it's up in the air. Which is why i asked the question in the first place.
On a seperate question,
Do combi weapons benefit from twinlinked?
At first glance no, but when used, the combi-melta fires "as a meltagun", and the combi flamer "as a flamer"
The vehicles are what makes the difference.....there is no argument that a dreadnaught's flamer is twin linked....or a preditors, or any other vehicle that would normaly not be twinlinked is twinliked with Vulkan around......
If your going to argue that sisters do not recieve the benifit of having Vulcan around for the lack of chapter tactics then you would have to argue the same thing for Vehicles..
What about other Chapter heads..what if you brought another named character..like shrike(god knows why but stay with me) AFAIK shrike does not have the chapter tactics rule(replaced by his fleet/outlfank)...would he be dissalowed from taking the twin linked benifits?
The rule is written very clearly. It states a loss of something for those with a certain ability, and then a gain of something for everyone in an army.
Unfortunately English is not Allesio and Company's (tm) primary language. I'm not sure what dialect they use, but it is a very lazy one that ends up having folks argue for years over what their intent was despite what they said. We Americans have just had a president that used similar grammatical acrobatics for the last 8 years. Actually, before him we had one that argued the definition of "is", but he was a Lawyer, what do you expect?
So, now we have a rule that says EXACTLY members of the army (which would include Sisters) would benefit from this rule. The only way to argue against it is to say either:
1) They aren't part of the army, which means allies rules fly out the window entirely.
2) It wasn't the intent of the rule, which means you have to believe that they even THOUGHT about this possibility when they playtested. I can almost guarantee they didn't even think about it since they would not concentrate on playtesting against 3rd edition codexes.
So unless the GW errata states otherwise, I'm going to go with what it says in plain, logical English.
If you need a fluffy reason for thei, just say Vulkan, being a Master of the Forge, would have been able to bring a couple of crates of gear with him for his allies. After all, if the mission is important enough for him to show up in his Strike Cruiser, then maybe he has a few spare weapons with him...
RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
I've been addicted to World of Tanks lately and neglecting my IG... But it is so... much... fun!
When all else fails, roll the die.
1-3 - sister weapons suck
4-6 - sister weapons rock
Anyone have word on combi weapons?