Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Shamefully i admit im a huge fan of mathammer and use it alot to fine tune my squads and tactics and ajust to the situation. Thankfully i can use it with restraint and will go with a slightly more fluff based army then fine use the math hammer to fine tune it. So no mass plasma for me etc.
The problem ive faced is trying to do the mathammer for blast weapons. Mainly i want to compare a Missile Launcher blast template to a HeavyBolter. Problem im finding is how to calculate how many people ill hit and chance including scatter ill hit something or multiple targets.
So first to hit.... 2/6 chance of scoring a HIT. Normally a minimum of 2 max of 5 models under the template.
Then theres scatter, some how i need a method of calculating the amount of likely directions the enemy will be in coupled with the distance it could scatter here im a little stumped as i partially get my head round the math and amount of variables then fall flat on my face.
Im almost certain some bright spark out there hold the answers, im not a million miles away but need help if any1 has any suggestions.
P.S. Please dont turn this into a Mathammer bashing, is merits and flaws have been discussed numerous times in most forums. Please just leave constructive comments comparing blast to normal hit functions. Much apreciated.
I think it's too hard to calculate. There are too many factors to consider for blast weapons, some of which include:
1) how far apart are the enemy models (within the unit) spaced
2) how many models in the squad
3) how large is the squad in terms of the actual amount of land it covers.
4) small or large blast
5) the amount/direction of scatter
6) how tightly packed are all the enemy units (how close they are to each other)
7) what type of army
the position of enemy units relative to your guys
All that depends on what your opponent has and how he arranges his army. Against horde armies like guards, orks, & nids, I'd say you have a better chance of doing more damage. But against chaos, space marines, necrons, daemonhunters & mechanized armies, you probably won't get much out of it. And it will be rather risky using blast weapons on enemy units close to your own.
I would say in this situation it is impossible to give an accurate mathhammer solution. However, I would suggest calculating how many models you could hit with the blast (as you've said 2-5) and then taking the probability to scatter, 2/6 hits on the scatter die then scatter distance minus BS and then calc out the wounds, saves as normal. If the blast scatters off your original target and onto other models then that's impossible to calc out. For the purposes of mathhammer, only the models under the blast exist.
So in the totally random situation...
A missile is shot form a BS 6 guy
This firer is able to place the blast over 3 models
Roll to scatter
0.33 chance to hit + 0.42 to scatter 6" or less thus negating scatter
so a 75% chance to hit on bs 6
The 0.42 was achieved by multiplying the possibilities that 2D6 can give (36 possibilities) and dividing the numbers of possibilities 6" and under by 36. So 15 possibilities to roll 2-6 = 15/36=4.166667 and round up for sanity.
Never apologise for asking questions young seers, through asking
questions we find answers, and through those answers we gain
knowledge of ourselves and the universe around us
Meet My Autarch
lol, brilliant. Im aware theres no accurate answer or i would of cracked it myself already. What im bsing this on is the missile being launched into the center of a line of say 10 marines. This is 2 possible directions of scatter in which units will still be hit. By calculating the rough angle we could calculatlate a % to hit in this worst case scenario on scatter, and then apply distance. Its possible, unfortuatly it would only give us a wosrt case scenario scatter effect but i feel that ok. Can always work one out then for if there grouped other ways. Once you have the base model your away.
Does this make logical sense to every1? If it does i might get to work calculating the angles and scatter probability to hit vs different formation of enemy, Hey its a way of passing time till the new codex.
I have made a tactica using probability distribution called, "Real Mathhammer 68%", I need to add more to it (to truly understand this post i recommend reading it), unfortunately mathhammer is a hit or miss deal meaning there is only one variable, in warhammer it is will it hit or cause a wound. Inorder to use mathhammer with blast weapons we can only determine how often the missle launcher blast will hit.
The player knows that there is a 33% chance that he will roll a hit on the scatter dice. The player cannot use probability distribution with this because there is no mean, it either happens or it doesnt.
If the dice scatters the player is going to assume that the average(mean) distance roll will be either 7 or 8. To be on the safe side he uses 8. He subtracts and add 1 standard deviation to get the 68% range.
That means that 68% of the time the player will roll a scatter distance between 6-10.
To make this usefull the player knows that there is 32% left(100-68=32), 11-12 representing the upper half left and 2-5 representing the lower half. He divides the 32% by 2 and gets 16%.
To show what I mean
There is a 16% chance that if he scatters he will roll 2-5 as the distance. This means he will either hit or move 2 inches which should still hit.
To determine which is better heavy bolter or missle launcher we have to determine which one will force the most saves which is a another story hope this helps.
Last edited by CKO; February 8th, 2009 at 19:58.
Read your 68% post Ckok and its great. I'd need way to much practise to use it but i think its genius. I got some idea to work out likely hood of hitting certain things so ill post my findings when ive had the time to do them and you can put your more intellectual interpritation of it up lol