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Bike squads consisting of at least five models may be taken as troops, right?
So, is 3 bikes + an attack bike a legal troop selection (4 models but 5 marines)? What about four bikes and an attack bike (5 models) or does it have to be 5 bikes?
The reason I ask is that when taken in full strength and using the combat squads rule, an Attack Bike counts as two models, so would it in this case?
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Hmm, a rather perplexing situation. The rule states that any bike squadron of 5 models or more may be taken as a troops choice, but then there's the problem of where exactly does an attack bike fall: A model with two wounds or two models mounted on a single base?
According to my rather shoddy research, I've come to the conclusion that at least four bikers and the single attack bike are necessary for the minimum requirement to count as troops.
My reasoning comes from the wording of combat squads which states that ten man squads may be broken down into two five man squads. In our dilemma a full biker squad consists of eight bikers and a single attack bike; nine models but ten men. Thus, when split into two five man squads, it must be assigned as following: three bikes and the attack bike in one combat squad and five normal bikes in the other.
Thus, we have a precedent of the attack bike equaling two men.
The rule stating that bikes may be chosen as troops states models, not men, so it could be interpreted that it means a literal five models, regardless of whether or not one of the models counts as two men. Unlike Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons teams, the attack bike is treated with a single, combined profile of a two wound model, rather than two separate stat lines representing driver and rider.
By simple wording of "Models" not "Men", I have thusly come to that conclusion that at least four bikers and a single attack bike count as the minimum troop choice; despite the fact that there is a precedent of the attack bike equalling two men.
That's the most literal and RAW way I can look at it, because of that wording "Models" rather than "Men".
But, if someone can bring up some more information I may have missed to change this, feel free to add. It's those two words "Models" and "Men" that make all the difference, and as I've so horribly demonstrated they carry two different conotations.
That's my two kidneys.
Love, Sayomi Akimoto
Tough one. Anyone else have any opinions on this? I had the same question. Sayomi's logic is good though, and feels right. Sadly enough for my army.
But it's still only a single model on the board. I personally think it's just regular Bikes they're talking about rather than Attack Bikes, but assuming they were including Attack Bikes in the equasion I'd suggest it'd be 4 Bikes and an Attack Bike, thus 5 models...when taken in full strength and using the combat squads rule, an Attack Bike counts as two models..
I think that attack bike counts as a "bike" for movement/shooting/turbo rules and so the same can be expected for the "troop" requirements. After all, it is called a ... bike The only exception is the "fire one weapon for each rider" I think?
Attack Bikes do not count, in any way, towards the number of models needed to take a squad as Troops. The rule states "Space Marine Bike squads of at least five models..." Notice the bold bit. There is only one codex entry that matches that word for word, and that is the Space Marine Bike squad. The Attack Bike is an option for the unit, to add it to the squad; it is not an original part of the squad. So to include an Attack Bike in a Troops squad, you must field at least five regular Bikers first.
That's how I read it.
I think you can have 4 bikes and attack bike. Never have I seen GW rules count the number models in that sort of situation. Since each Marine does not have a seperate listing.
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@ Lost Nemesis.. the attack bike is part of the 'Space Marine Bike Squadron' though.. and it is most certainly a model.. to me the question is whether it counts for one or two models, to which I come to the same conclusion as just about everyone else here that it counts as just one.. It's got several of exceptions to this (number of fired weapons, combat squads) however each time it states that it bends the rules.. it doesn't in this particular case.. for which reason it would just be plain wrong to assume that it did.. (like people claiming storm trooper chimeras can deepstrike.. that's another discussion though)