Mortar-bored - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 44

Thread: Mortar-bored

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    MI, USA
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    As pretty much all of us agree, mortars suck. They're guess weapons, so they only have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting (well, okay, slightly more if you're lucky with scatters) instead of the usual IG 1 in 2. They have a pitiful S4 and a worse AP6. To make matters worse, they only ever hit 2 or 3 models and usually all but one of those gets an additional 4+ invulnerable save. Not good...

    So how can we fix mortars? How can we make them more popular and a more attractive choice to IG commanders, without (and this is very important) unbalancing them?

    Well, I've been thinking about this and come up with the following options:

    1. Increase the blast diameter by using the larger (ordnance) template. The advantage of this is obviously that you will hit a lot more models and most of them will not get the 4+ invulnerable save. However, while this might strengthen the mortar against SM/CSM armies, against hordes or Eldar this seems to be really unbalancing. A mortar is weakly effective against Orcs or Tyranids - to up the scale of the hit would be really unfair.

    2. Increase the Strength, from 4 to 5. No higher than that, I think. This seems okay, but I'd still want to take a HB personally.

    3. Increase the AP from 6 to 5. This is okay again, but maybe a little more unbalancing than increasing the Strength.

    4. Increase the range. Make mortars a G60" weapon. This is fairly pointless in small battles, however.

    5. Lower the cost. Drop the average cost of a mortar from 10 (15) points to 8 (10). A Mortar Support Squad would therefore only cost 65 points, which is a real bargain.

    6. Give the IG Commander a choice of mortar rounds. This is my personal favourite. Keep the mortar as it is but treat this as a frag round. However, if 3 mortars (i.e. a normal squad) fire at one target, the combined effect will act like a krak round but will have a reduced area (i.e. one blast template, not three).

    What do you guys think? Do any of these suggestions appeal to you? Or do you have an alternative? Or do you think mortars should be left as they are?

    _________
    Don't blame me; I'm just telling it like it is. Blame GW if you really want to blame somebody.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    675
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x2)

    Well, if you are trying to use Mortors against Space Marines, get your head fixed. Mortors do a large amount of damage to Tyranids, Orks, Dark Eldar, and the like. If I had to change it, I would give them AP5, having a weapon that has strength 5 AP6 does not make a lot of sense. But a strength 4 and AP5, it would be a bolter with a Blast Template. That is the only way to make them better.

  4. #3
    Member serpentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Mortars aren't guess weapons anymore. Far as I know, now you just place the template within range and roll the scatter dice. *shrugs*

    And as for "fixing" mortars, I think they're working just fine. Mortars, historically, were never really that accurate. They're indirect fire for a reason.

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    257
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Yea, with 4th ed., you don't need to guess, and they are supposed to suck to some extent
    'It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees'-Pancho Villa

    'You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it'-Malcolm X

  6. #5
    Lasgun Cell Cook BoxANT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bloomington, MN
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    118 (x6)

    messing around with the mortars stats isn't the answer. the mortar is basically an indirect frag missle (both are Str 4 AP6). the AP6 for all the frag weapons is important. flak jackets are not supposed to be good as stopping bullets, but they are supposed to help against explosions. if all the frag weapons (mortars, frag missles, frag gren launcher) were ap5 then they wouldn't do that (which is their purpose).

    like it was said before, mortars are NOT supposed to be good against power armor, you don't shoot a frag missle at power armor do you?

    and besides, in 4ed. you're going to place the blast marker, roll 2d6 if out of LOS, and pick the highest dice roll ( ie a 4 and 3 roll = 4 ) and scatter. this means mortars will be hitting home a lil more often!

    the main reason people say mortars suck is because they do against enemies with good saves. but against Orks, Nids or IG, they're great! those horde armies w/ low saves get hit hard with mortars. i once had a mortar support squad kill 8 orks in one salvo! man they hit him hard that game.

  7. #6
    Son of LO H0urg1ass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,160
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    171 (x6)

    I think that option #6 is the best idea yet.

    I really like the idea of having different rounds for it, just like a krak missile has. This would make them a viable choice in a balanced army list, unlike now.

    I'm not sure that everyone has read this post as carefully as they should have, as it wasn't another post just to talk about how much the mortar sucks, but instead a chance to offer suggestions.

    My only suggestion is that a pinning effect for mortars should be implemented. I've been under a mortar attack IRL, and I can tell you that I could hide behind a pack of camels with a 100 lb rucksack, 200 rounds of M249 ammo and my M16 with no part of my body protruding when they start falling. You don't WANT to move when mortars start hitting.

    By this logic, I think that pinning tests should be taken if a mortar round lands within 2" of an enemy squad. No casualties should even have to be taken, just the fear of being hit with indirect fire.

    I dunno, maybe this is too much, but it would at least make them usable.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    MI, USA
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Originally posted by H0urg1ass@Jul 23 2004, 14:54
    I think that option #6 is the best idea yet.

    I really like the idea of having different rounds for it, just like a krak missile has. This would make them a viable choice in a balanced army list, unlike now.

    I'm not sure that everyone has read this post as carefully as they should have, as it wasn't another post just to talk about how much the mortar sucks, but instead a chance to offer suggestions.
    Thank you, H0urg1ass, for your comments and for reading the original post. Ever since our first little tussle when I first posted on this board you have gone up and up in my estimation. No joke.
    _________
    Don't blame me; I'm just telling it like it is. Blame GW if you really want to blame somebody.

  9. #8
    Senior Member OrkSlugga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    In your mind - well you cant prove im not.
    Posts
    413
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Humm.... i think morters are fine as they are, they do damage to the things they are meant to do damage to, ork and nids, however i do think making them AP5 would in all fairness be fair
    The poster formaly known as VampireSoul, formaly known as OrkSlugga now known as Orkslugga.


  10. #9
    Senior Member Cadia515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Long island, USA
    Posts
    255
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    i do think the rules r messed up with mortars myself. i mean cmon, if a mortar round came hurtaling(sp) at the ground from 100's of feet in the air and landed on a Sm, wouldnt he blow up in peices? i mean cmon Gw treats mortars as if every round blows up in between the models and not right on top of one(even tho it doesnt happen very often) but what happens if you have models really really close together and a mortar round came your way? it would blow up on top of some guys head, and he dies automaticlly! he wouldnt get right back up after a 100 and something pound peice of ordanance blew up on his head.

    If i could change the rule:

    You know the hole in the middle of the blast marker? well if any model is right under it, it acts as a krak round Str 8 ap 3, and everything else stays the same

    what do u think?
    <img src='http://www.leadlegions.com/WAR/WHMR/ca.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />&quot;Only in death does duty end.&quot;

    <a href='http://www.ufoarmy.com' target='_blank'>UFOarmy</a>

  11. #10
    Member serpentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Nah, I think they&#39;re fine the way they are.

    It&#39;s not a weapon that will make or break an army. It&#39;s a support weapon.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts