Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Bare with me here. I understand the headaches caused when someone makes a new thread with questions that have been answered already, but I have a lot of different questions and it would be nicer to have all the answers in one place, assuming there are answers at all. Thanks in Advance, glad to join Librarium Online.
Haven't played Wh40k for almost a year but now I find that I have time, money and transportation.... so I've decided to get back into the addiction.
Used to play Black Templars and I still have the force but I couldn't tell you how many points it is. I'm guessing around 3000. Collected the army over the years, going in and out of interest.
Recently acquired Dawn of War and played that.. which sparked the love again. This all started way back when I was into model trains. Went to a hobby shop and grew keenly interested in the dangerous looking models that the Hobby Store was displaying. My brother took more of the interest then I did at that point. purchasing himself a blood angels death company complete with chaplain. After awhile I bought my first model, a techmarine (which still holds strong in my army, despite a mediocre paint job) next came assault marines... which I inappropriately equipped with plasma pistols that had long been left over from the Death Company sprue. After that came the Starter Box... the one with the Land Speeder and Dark Eldar. I don't know what happened to the Dark Eldar, but the Tactical squad is now divided somewhat yet all members are still in full service. The Landspeeder having been reinforced with a Tornado Companion, after I equipped the lone craft with a Multi-melta.
Anyways, the army is a book with many chapters written in different languages and divided in character so much that it has a very unique one. I want my next force to be much more uniform, little difference in paint scheme, with a much more flexible game plan than that of the "Run in and kill 'em all" style of play that the Black Templars have. At first I thought of jumping the complete parallel and going with Tau, but I just can't see myself letting go of Close Combat that easily.
Thus I've decided to make my own chapter. Right now i've just been in the research phase. Seeing what units I might want, and developing the character/color/style of the army. I need help though 'cause the more I look the bigger my eyes get.
I'm not too familiar with the new rules, nor Apocalypse, so right now I'm just looking at making a tactically flexible fighting force, with the idea of having the organization chart at full, maybe some options as things go on.
The Idea was...
Commander and Command Squad (I'm gonna keep it simple in terms)
Chaplain (Tailored to fight along side either Assault or Termie)
Sternguard* with Razorback
Sternguard* or Dreadnought
Tactical Squad with Vet. Sergeant
Tactical Squad with Rhino
Tactical Scouts OR Tactical/CC Scouts
10-man Assault Marines
2 Standard Land Speeders, 1 Tornado, and 1 Typhoon. ***
*= I've seen alot of debate. I mainly selected these 'cause the Miniatures are very nice, and they would fit in with the fluff of my force. I was also thinking about taking an Ordo Xenos Kill team until I figured that there wouldn't be a point with Sternguard. The question goes to the players who've either played them or play them: Are they really really worth it? They seem to be a beef'd up Tac squad, and do they do what you want them to do at least 50% of the time?
**= Read on a forum that they aren't quite what they used to be in the new 5th Edition rules. GW Article sold me on them, with pinning and high accuracy, not to mention the added missle launcher or Heavy Bolter that they would receive.
***= 1st: I was thinking about keeping the gunner's loose, and maybe 1-2 having a Multi-Melta that I could swap around with the other speeders. Would anyone suggest this, and even better... has anyone tried it themselves? The Multi-Melta is pretty Devastating as It was the first vehicle I've had and has always served me well, but I was wondering if the heavy bolter would serve just as good.
2nd: Are all variants conveiniently packaged in one box now?
****= 1st: Are new Devastator Models all plastic? I got a box of the Metal/plastic hybrids back when I was making my Templars and I was happy that I was playing an army that utilized very very few heavy weapons. If the guns and guys are plastic now I'm sold. 2nd: Whirlwind or Thunderfire Cannon, I've heard they serve similar purposes but I'm not experienced with either of them.
I'm not planning on getting everything all at once as that would most likely kill my enthusiasm with a Ordenance blast.
I was thinking....
Commander and Command Squad
SM Battleforce (Assault Squad, Scouts, 15 Tacs and a Rhino)
oh yeah, and the new rulebook and Codex.. hurrrr
Would anyone have any suggestions on how to follow up to keep things Balanced? With the long term objective of getting 90% of that list above?
Name: Arcadian Gryphonnes
Colors: Red, Blue, and White
Tactica: Flexibility. Units are trained to be able to fulfill at least two battlefield objectives. The secondary tactics being out-flanking and striking hard.
Background: Set in the Segmentum Pacificus near the Veiled Region. The Arcadian System is the last Imperial System standing in the immediate region. Peppered by Pirate Raids from the Dark Eldar and small scale Ork Waaaaghs! The minimally supplied chapter has taken up somewhat unorthodox approaches to dealing with the Alien Menaces. Being relatively young, they have little access to the few suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armour they were bestowed, often only seen on or accompanied with Commanders. This has given rise to the extended use of Power Armour even into the Veteran units. Many units are Ordo Xenos veterans, and this has risen in the supply of specialist ammunition granted to the distant chapter. Units are also trained to work without communication or reinforcement for months. Their few Librarians have studied the alien intensely, using data acquired from the Scouts and that received from the Xenos veterans. This has lead to extremely effcient tactics that minimalize losses while maximizing destruction when attacking an enemy. Often utilizing an Orks impatience and hot head against itself, or leading a Dark Eldar raiding party into an inferno of heavy weapons fire.
Indeed they work closely with the Systems local Imperial Guard Divisions. Orchestrating Mass counter-assaults and cleanses of the Alien purge. When an unsuccessful Waaagh! left the Ork taint to hide and grow in Arcadia III's forests, they set out on an extensive campaign to efficiently cleanse the entire planet of the alien scum. After 20 years without a sight of the greenskin menace by locals and lookouts, it was announced that the planet was free of the menace, but that doesn't stop more raids from outside.
The Gryphonnes have attracted the eye of the Inquisition by their unorthodox organization. Instead of separating the soldier types between companies, each company features it's own scouts and veterans, with certain companies fulfilling similar tactics to their Codex-strict bretheren. It is also speculated that they number 150 to 200 men per company, as apposed to the Codex 100.
I'm planning on using the Raptors/Mentors shoulder pads available from the GW online store, as well as the Raptor Terminator Shoulder Pads and Raptor tank doors from Forgeworld to give the army a bonafied Official Chapter feel, as apposed to just a fancy paint job. Not to mention I'm not very good at just painting simple logos, and I dislike tranfers with a passion.
Thanks for reading, glad to hear thoughts/revisions/witty remarks to how much things have changed since I've last played.
Last edited by Snaeper; February 17th, 2009 at 05:48.
I would say that you should get the codex before you start planning your army and what to buy.
And yes, new devs are all plastic and come with more weapon options then the old metal/plastic box.
yes, this is more of a pre-planning set-up. Going more off experience and want of things I couldn't previously have. I plan on getting the Codex and maybe even the Rulebook tomorrow/later today (12 in the morning)
Thanks for the insight. Devastators are now on the list.
Okay, so I got the Codex and Rule book today.
I just need opinions on Whirlwind and Thundercannon, Sternguard, and Sniper Scouts.
There is a good discussion on sterngaurd in this thread:
Whirlwinds are cheap and great against horde. Being able to hide them behind cover is nice too.
Sniper scouts can be nice in cover, and with camo cloaks and a unit that has "bolster defences" you could get them a +2 cove save. I haven't tried this out yet, but I have used my sniper scouts without the cloaks and they still performed fairly well for me... till they got into cc at the end of the game lol.
I haven't tried out the thundercannon yet, but all my SM friends are saying we should all get one for fun just because it looks cool, lol.
First off welcome back to 40K! Secondly, I love the lyrical way you describe your army and the details in how it evolved. Clearly this is something you have put thought and energy into.
You listed above one tactical squad has a veteran sergeant. Now all sergeants are automatically veteran sergeants.
You mentioned an article on scouts which proclaimed their high accuracy. This is a fallacy and a thing of the past. In 4th Edition sniper rifles always hit on a 2+, now they use the BS of the firer and for scouts (except the Sgt) that is a BS of 3. This BS is not terrible, but it is not as good as a standard Marine.
My experience with Sternguard (using them and playing against them) is that they are an extremely HIGH PRIORITY TARGET which means I try to kill them first if the other guy has them. That is ok because they are not a scoring unit (usually) and you should expect to lose them and you should be willing to sacrifice them for the win.
For your command squad, take the upgrade to company champion and give your other guys power weapons (if you want an assaulty unit, which they can do very well).
Transports are much more durable and the rhino is now a must-have. A razorback with a twin linked heavy bolter (aka TLHB ) is only 5 points more than a rhino, which is a bargain too!
Landspeeders are pretty good. Use them with care because they are fragile. It used to be that 90% of them in use had the assault cannon/heavy bolter combo. The assault cannon got nerfed so it is not so popular, plus the cost went up significantly.
That's it for now. Good luck!
Last edited by 4theEmperor!; February 19th, 2009 at 21:55. Reason: unintended smiley inserted!
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
I've used the thunderfire once and I have this to say "I want it, I want it, I want it." I used in a marine vs marine game and it did beautifully. Killing an entire tactical squad in 2 turns then the the cannon blew up. I ran the techmarine behind one of my tactical squads (in the improved cover he provided) to stop my enemy from getting his kill point.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
Alright, so I got the Codex and Rulebook and mapped out what units I wanted and then made a full 3000 point list. I've also grown an unhealthy attraction towards Crimson Fists so I made a list for them as well. I might end up making the Crimson Fists first as 1500 list is cheaper (I suffered price shock all over again ). For both armies, I'm gonna aim at buying sculpted tank pieces off Forgeworld, as well as GW Shoulderpads (in the case of the CF, the whole IF Conversion pack). I'm also gonna get the Ordo Xenos Kill team conversion pack to represent Veteran Xenos members in the Gryphonnes, although the guns wont have specialty ammunition.
Anyhoo, I'm gonna post both lists and the total points for both armies. Feel free to express any changes you would want to add if it were yours. Keep in mind points though. Both armies are exactly 3000 and 1500 so any changes might throw the balance around but if it's critical it will happen.
Crimson Fists Strike Force:
Terminators w/ Assault Cannon
Dreadnought w/ Plasma Cannon and Extra Armour
I thought about getting Stern Guard to take advantage of Pedro's ability but the Fist in Crimson Fists.. is just so perfectly represented by Termies and a Dread. However, the Sternguard units feature a Power-fist equipped Sarge, and it might be better to have a Power fist equipped Sarge's in my tac squads? There's also the chance that I could get points by stripping down my over-equipped Rhino.
10 Man Tac Squad w/ Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol and Chainsword
10 Man Tac Squad w/ Multi-Melta, Flamer, and Chainsword
Rhino with Extra Armour, Dozer Blade, Hunter-Killer Missile
6 man Bike Squad w/ Attack Bike (so 7) Power Weapon, Melta gun, Plasma Gun, Melta Bombs
Land Speeder (got this 'cause I had extra points I didn't know what to do with. I've always had good experience with Speeders and find Fast Attack to be as crucial as Heavy Support)
Vindicator w/ Storm Bolter, Siege Shield, Extra Armour
5 man Devastators w/ 2x Missile Launchers, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon, Storm Bolter and Chain Sword
Total Points: 1500
Thoughts: I picked the vindicator because this seemed like the best force to put one in (Again, cricling around the "Fist" ideal). However, if anyone's had bad experiences with them, I would certainly think about picking up a Predator Tank. So tell me thoughts on the Vindicator. I also picked Bikes 'cause I'd never gotten the chance to use them before so I saw this as an opportunity to get to work with them.
Arcadian Gryphonnes 3rd Company Strike Force:
Captain w/ Boltgun, Hellfire Rounds, Digital Weapons, Arti Armour, Power Weapon. (Using Space Marine Master of Recruits Miniature)
Command Squad w/ Company Champion, Flamer, 2x Power Weapon
Chaplain w/ Terminator Armour, Digital Weapons
6 man Sternguard w/ Powerfist, Combi-Melta (Using Veteran with Bolter Miniature for 6 non-repeating Miniatures)
Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Dozer Blade
Venerable Dreadnought with TL Autocannon and Extra Armour (Gonna use Forgeworld Chaplain Venerable Dread)
Terminators w/ Assault Cannon
10 man Tac Squad w/ Missle Launcher, Flamer, Chainsword
10 man Tac Squad w/ Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun, Teleport Homer, Chainsword
10 man Scout Squad w/ Heavy Bolter, Teleport Homer, 3x Combat Blades, 2x Shotguns, Melta Bombs (Planning on Combat Squadding this. One shooty unit with the Bolters and HB, the other with the CC Shotguns and CB's.)
10 man Scout Squad w/ Sniper Rifles 8x, Missle Launcher
Vanguard Assault Marines w/ Relic Blade, 2x Power Weapons, 2x Plasma Pistols
10 man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Plasma Pistol, Combat Shield, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs
Land Speeder Squadron w/ Tornado HB/AC, Standard with HB, and Typhoon with HB.
10 Man Devastator Squad w/ Plasma Cannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher
Whirlwind w/ Extra Armour
Total Points= 3000
Thoughts: So, are the Sniper scouts worth it? Would it be a better idea to reduce strength and add the Veteran Scout Sergeant Character (Codex is... too far, lazy, can't think of his name) and use any points left over elsewhere? Is there any units I should consider downgrading/upgrading? Is there anything YOU would up/downgrade? Any units I ahould add/lose? I like fluff, but I also like to have a threatening force.
Any help is appreciated in advance. Listing Wargear is allowed as long as it doesn't have the points cost right?
Last edited by Snaeper; February 21st, 2009 at 01:32.
Heard that 1750 was more of the norm for points, so I re-worked my Crimson fists to fit around that instead of 1500. This was on a thread for a local gaming club (Adeptus Arizona).
5 Man Sternguard squad w/ Power Fist, Combi-Melta, and Melta Bombs.
Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Extra Armour.*
Terminators w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher
Dreadnought w/ Plasma Cannon and Extra Armour
*- Couldn't decide if I should take a Drop Pod or not. It seemed to be a waste to have a 10 man unit only haul around 6 guys (Pedro would accompany them)
10 Man Tac Squad w/ Melta Gun, Plasma Cannon and Chainsword
10 Man Tac Squad w/ Flamer, Multi-Melta and Power Fist
3 Man Bike Squad w/ Power Weapons, Melta Bombs, Melta Gun
4 Man Scout Bike Squad w/ Locator Beacon, Melta Bombs and Cluster Mines
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield and Extra Armour
5 Man Devastator Squad w/ 2x Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon, Chain Sword
EDIT: I've also added Darnath Lysander and a Land Speeder to the list to make this a 2000 point Army in two easy models.
I realized that the 6-man Bike Squad was eating alot of points, and that none of my units had a locator Beacon. I stripped down the main bike squad and allocated the points to the Scouts, now having a unit that can make an opponent sweat (Cluster Mines), able to bring in the heavy termies, and have some anti-armour capability with the Melta Bombs. I also realized that I had enough points on my Rhino for my tac squad and that those points could've been spent somewhere else to greater effect.
Last edited by Snaeper; February 22nd, 2009 at 03:22.
Sternguards are one of my favourite units, they are expensive, but the variety of shots is well worth it and they have one me many a game against marines who werent expecting to not get an armour save from a bolter shot.