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So we all know Terminators are Badass, I personally love the guys. But anyone else who uses them knows that they are a huge point sink, and if you don't get your points worth out of them they can really screw up a game plan.
Now we all know the type of player I am sure who likes to whine whenever you play something that...
1) Makes them think
2) Messes up their plan
3)Will kill their pretty units
This sometimes happens with me. I enjy the occasional Terminator heavy army. Consisting of normally 20-22 Terminators. 5 Assault nomrally, rest are Stock Pfist/Sbolter. SO it's not like there are 16-18 pairs of lightning claws running around the field. I like the adaptability of the Deepstrike, as well as the surprise with 3-4 Teleport Homers running around with HQ's and Vetern sergeants sprining THE Only real fulfilling ambush you can in 40k (Next to hidden set up and Orbital strike of course), which I love.
And my most common opponentsplay Iron warriors, or Orks. Obviously the Ork Kid doesn't mind a bunch of 42 point 4+ armor saves running around, so he doesn't bitch. As he is smart enough to figure out how his army can COUNTER them and go on their happy little ways.
And My standard Force ORganisation normally goes along the lines of...
4-5 Tac Squads
10 Man assault squad W/Outacks
Nothing special, but he doesn't like the fact that he'd have to risk his big bad units to kill my termies. Now If I don't take them he's happy as hellt o walk his Daemonprince though my marines..but as soon as he sees thsoe termies the whole whining thing starts...
And for somebody who power runs a
-Tweakoud out Iron Warriors Daemon Prince
-Tweaked Possesd Marines
-Havoc Squad(or another Defiler)
-And 4 squads of Infiltrating Marines
-With All HQ'sand retinue running at 12' a turn with ALL powerweapons
He wants to bitch at me abotu Terminators! COme on now,,they are tough, bu they can be countered jsut as easy as anythign else...MORE so with the Powerfists...
This is meant as a debate/covoerssation thread...just al ittle rant thrown in at the end.
I hate players that think they have this "super beat all strategy/army" And get ethir losses when you pull one out, and after that it's all whining and poor sportsmanship. I mean how are my termies cheap,. when he's got four ordnace pieces with inderect fire and ALWAYS a wall to hide them behind?
-Semper Fidelus Imperitoris
Personally I like what most players call powergaming armies.... if GW deemes them legat then who are we to say that it's powergaming?
Just last week i played against a full Death Company army and yes, I was scared shi%^less but at the end of the game I managed to win a massacre.. no Blood Angels on the table at all.
What most people miss is that those armies which are full of over-powerful units/characters is that these armies do not have that many models and even a lasgun can kill a terminator or Death Company.
Just keep in mind that points wise one terminator is (almost) equal to an infantry squad and there is always the chance that a shot will get through.....
<a href='http://forum.librarium-online.com/index.php?showtopic=16083' target='_blank'>Master of the Convent of Our Martyred Saint</a>
Get your sig from-tHe BaD GuY
firstly, your friends iron warrior list is bad. to many ordance unit. 1-2 would be enough. he should spend his points on more infantry and giving them heavy weapons, army the aspiring champion with power weapon... them he would win.
secondly, i think you are using too many terminators. i know terminators are good in close combat, but if the have to walk 6" a turn to get to their destination, they might not make it, unless you drop pod. if you drop pod, not all your units will arrive on the same time. making it easier for your opponent to concentrate his fire on one unit no worrying what the other units are going to do.
talk about a bad IW list,
way to much points taken into, the retinues and the possessed, besides playing with 3-4 ord. is of no fun playing with, I did it at first but I dropped it later on as I found out there are more cost effectieve weapons than defilers such as predators
That many termies would make my buddies kick me out of the house, and we play at my house. lol.
There is no "real" way your buddy can call your termies cheap. Especially since he is playing IW, and has a bunch of termies and Oblits. Plus he has the firepower to kill em.
Here is why I think he is callin em cheap.(just my opinion).
If you use em right, you can put a serious hurting on his army. It seems that he has built a very expensive and tweaked army that he wants to rule the world with. And that many termies have thrown a huge wrench into his plans of slaughtering everything out there, with no effort and now tactics. I dont blame you for bringing that many, with what you are facing. deep strike the heck out of him with those big guys.
My buddies hate my termies, especially my chaos ones, and i get more out of them then what they can get out of theres( the ones that also play space marines). So I try and limit the numbers i bring just cause 1. I get tired of the whining. 2. i like the challenge. But In larger games i'll try and field a large squad of em. I play the Wolves so i am limited on the numbers i can have, but a good squad of 10 WG termies has saved the day many a time.
Tell your buddy to stuff it, and you'll quit bringing your mass of termies when he wants to try and play somethin that doesnt require you bringing em all to fight.
Plus he has enough hvy weps out there to destoy them.
Lighthorse TYhat's exactly my point. A tweaked out Heavysupport IronWarrios army can play wioth more hvy weapons than any other army list out there. HJe doesn't mind blasting me with strength 8 AP#+ weapons all day long. But give him something to think about and he's gonna cry l;ike a baby. He himself often rolls with 10 Chaos Termies! On top of that THe Obliteratros(Which I don't have), THe Mass Ordnance(Which I don't have) and the Insane amoutn of heavy weapons/power weapons? My Termies should be a great big Nullseyte for himt o point sink my army quiter easily...I just hate hearing players whine because they get something thats gonna stiop them from easily walking down the field and stomping you out flioat.
-Semper Fideulis Im[peritoris
OK I dont like termies in a nilla army, they are, as you say, a points sink and their ability to recoup their points value is risky, on decent ordinance template can ruin their day. I would rather spend the points elsewhere.
In a large army (2000 points+) then perhaps a unit of termies is justified.
However, personnally I am working on death wing at the moment, HQ: termies, Elites: termies, Troops: termies, FA termies, HS termies. you call your list a terminator heavy force?
Admitedly I throw in a couple of dreads and when in the mood an LRC
Everything you have been told is a lie!
i love haveing 9 wolf guard termies in my hq retinue, but like most people know they are not infallable, a couple of plasma cannons will shred em
Station:in all the world of the drow there is no more important word.It is the calling of their-of our-religion,.ambition overrides good sense and compassion is thrown away in its face, all in the name of the spider queen.
i find that termies drop very easily depending on who you are going against . but i have yet to use wolfguard termies but my experience with normal terminators was a bad . 70 las guns into your 10 man squad (crusaiders help termies alot though)
I don't see how terminators are cheesy considering point for point they're easier to kill than normal marines.. Anyone who complains doesnt understand heh
There are more weapons that are used that bypass terminator armor than there are AP3 weapons