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I need some advice on army composition, I seem to almost always lose and I mainly play against my friends tyranid army.
Below is a list of the models I have to choose from for 500-700 point games.
2x tac squads
10 h2h scouts
5 sniper scouts
Marine with las cannon
Terminator sqaud S bolters and powerfists
Chaplain in termi armou
And very soon a assault squad.
Im unfocussed with my unit usage so I would love some ideas from people for army lists and way they would use them,
His damn hive tyrant does my head in. He always takes synapse, gaunts and stealers with all the wargear for re rolls.
Any help I would be eternally greatful for.
Sternguard will eat his hive tyrant apart.
I'm not totally up on the nid's dex, but i would have thought the hive tyrant would fall pretty fast to the librarians force weapon, you'd just have to get it to land. Attach the chaplain for re-rolls to hit and that'll help.
You've got a fair few models, however I dont see anything that a typical bug list would have to worry about. Ideally you need a lot of shots to be fired at a decent range, so heavy bolters, missile launchers with frags, hellfire shells from a scout's HB and plasma cannons will do a lot of hurt to most bug lists.
Razorbacks would help too.
Trying to use what you've got, I'd take the whirlwind and keep it alone as far away from the enemy as possible, the scouts would deploy right next to the tacticals and keep them all stationary as far forward as deployment allows. Chaplain and Librarian attached to Termie squad, and deploy them together just behind the tacticals.
The idea is to shoot like crazy while keeping your models quite tightly bunched. As the bugs advance, throw the scouts out first to tie them in combat. they'll get chewed up but they should slow them down for a turn and allow more shooting. repeat with tactical squads, throwing combat-squads out first, then the rest, trying to keep as many models shooting for as long as possible. If he leads his army with his tyrant, fire everything (everything!) at it while moving the termies+HQ forward to intercept. The librarian and number of power fists should beat it into the floor in a single turn with the chaplain attached, providing they get the charge.
The whirlwind should keep firing while ever the risk to friendly models is minimal
That sounds like a great plan, I have 600 point game coming up soon so i dont think the termis will be able to be used.
So do you think the rhino would just be a waste of time. I also have a dreadnought I can use if i wish aswell.
---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------
So if i use the librarian for quickening will that allow allthe termis to attack at iniative 10?
If so yeah, thet definitely would work.
Dreadnought with DCCW and a good mid or close-ranged weapon would be excelent. In 600points, go for cheap and lots of them, so as many scouts and tacticals as you can field, as most armies struggle to deal enough wounds on 30 or 40 marines at such a low points level.
The rhino is usable in such a small game and with the right tactics could really help, but i personally thing that, at 600 points, most vehicles take away too many shooting bodies to count their worth.
Quickening only works on the librarian. Terminators with power fists will strike last, regardless of their Initiative value anyway because of the rules on the power fist.
First off, Synapse Creatures like the Tyrant no longer get wacked by the Force Weapon. They are immune to Instant Death and that is what the Force Weapon does in 5th.
My list of choice for 750 would be:
The Captain is basically your heavy hitting stormtrooper. If those Gene Stealers (what's left of them anyway) get to close, you charge them with the Captain to dispense some Imperial Justice with the TH. The SS with its 3+ Invulnerable Save will keep those ugly rending attacks at bay for the most part. He can also be use against the Tyrant if you can't drop it in time. At just 130 points he's pretty much a bargain for what he does.
2 Combi Flamers
First I would like to point out that you can make your own Vets with some simple conversion work, so never buy the metal ones; it's a waste of money. Mine for example have Black Templar shoulder pads (since they are a decending chapter of the BTs) which make them stand out significantly.In the game they should be used for taking down the Tyrant with their Hellfire Rounds. Once he is down you start using them for killing Stealers. If they have a 5+ save eiter use Hellfire Rounds or the Dragonfire Bolts if they are behind cover. Stealers with a 4+ save can be handled with Kraken Bolts.
9 Space Marines
9 Space Marines
Both your Tac Squads should be split in two groups of five. One with the Sergeant with the PW and the Flamer, the other with the Heavy Bolter. Use the Heavy Bolter groups to widdle down the numbers of which ever horde of Nids poses the biggest threat and keep going at them until they are down. This is important: CONCENTRATE YOUR FIRE! Let the PW/Flamer take some potshots and keep them close to your fireline. Once a group of Nids threatens to charge you next turn, walk up to them, flame them and charge.
The Scouts are good for helping take down the Tyrant. Once he is down the Nids are no longer Fearless and as such are pinnable. So should whatever threatens you the most and force pinning test on them. Needless to say you should always deploy them in cover with atleast two good firinglanes.
I hope this helps you on your way a bit. I realize you don't have all the models but with a little conversion work and a couple new models you're set.
For my last 6 battles all i have faced is tyranids so i know alot of their tricks
First off flamers are great weapons for burning nids, only problem is to deploy the flamer in any effect you would have to be within about 14 inches from the tyranids, only problem is with fleet genestealers can run 18 inches and Hormagaunts a whopping 24 inches. This means against any Tyranid player who actualy knows what he is doing will get into cc with you before you can deploy your flamer, also what i have found out is that genestealers are usually not deployed on the field if the Tyranid player is only running one or two broods of genestealers instead there going to have scuttlers and flank you usually getting into cc as soon as they deploy, the only way they are left in the open is if the kill the entire squad in one turn. To combat this i usually put my flamers in rhinos and send them up, to burn the little guys, make sure you keep the fexs and Tyrants attention with bigger stuff i.e terminators and your lascannon guy.
Sternguards work well but you would have to keep them atleast 12 away from the edges of the board if ur opponents flanking genestealers.
Don't field a dreadnaught agianst a hive tyrant, it will be ripped to pieces first round of close combat i woul instead recomend either cc terminators or a five man devastator squad with two to three lascanons or a tri lascanon predator, by the time the hive tyrant is in range to assault these unit is will be a smoldering piece of charocal.
Also it is best to avoid putiing your hq units into close combat with genestealers wheever posible, because they will die, on a charge a brrod of eight vanilla genestealers can dish out enough wounds and rending hit to kill atleast 3 terminators. A captain that is worth with a thunder hammer would be deadd beffore even killing on genestealer, becaue of one thing to many wounds, you just can't save them all.
Also i founf rocket launchers to be almost usless against tyranids their blasts just aren't stomg enogh to take down the nids is great enogh number and heavy bolter will likely only cause 1 cto 2 wounds a shot if you are lucky. The answer plasma cannons. For five measly points in a tact squad you get a wepon that can deal with any tyranid troops efectivelt except syuper beefed up fexes that have extended carpace.
For your librarian if he is in terminator armour throw him with the terminators. If he is not in terminator i suggest giving him the avenger and throwing him in on of your rhinos's with a flamer combat squad, with to template weapons in one Rhinos yourforces will be able to burn the little buggers to ashes, remember always to move your rhino at least one inch so that if any big bugs come into cc with it they won't be hitting instantly.
To deal with the hive tyrant shoot it with your lascanon and other high damage low ap wepons, if you are shoot ap3 weapons at an upgraded tyrant with extended carapace you are wasting your time the shoot could be better used killing warriors or genestelers. If It seems that the Tyrant is going to assault you use all powertfists you have, send everything you have that can actually hit it to kill it in one round of combat, I recomend swarming thw tyrant with the chaplain terminators and any other units that have powerfists, once the synapse is dead the rest of the tyranid army is as good as dead minus carnefexes and genstealers. Though don't woory carnies out of synapse can be instabe dethed by force weapons.
in my opinion scouts are wothless against tyranids throwing ten close combat scouts at an army that lives and breathes cc is like sending sheeos to the slaughter, i woul use your scouts to slow down the tyranids melle beast or the hormagaunst or gaunts meatshield, they will not win an assaault against any tyranid unit except gaunts and rippers. Also the new sniper rifle rules nerfed it efectivenaess the point wojld be better spent else where, like sterngaurds, las canon preadators.
Your whirlwind should perform amazing against the small unit but will do nothing agaianst the big bugs. If you are going to shoot the whirlwind at the tyrant it should be in desperate meaures only. Also clumpings works unless your nid player has a barbed stranglers, sure your marines have a really good save but when you have ten wounds on a squad thats still three marines dead.
One final tip if you ever face one if you see a broodlord on the field and it is moving toward your terminators kill it before it gets there. It will save you alot of grief.
Last edited by Doom146; March 26th, 2009 at 22:42.
1. There is a Broodlord which ensures the Genestealers are close by, but no Tyrant.
2. A group of Genestealers has to slog across the board.
Either way, one should be able to put a serious number of rounds in them to decimate them to a number where they are manageable. And you should be the one charging them to reduce the number of wounds you have to save. Either way your Captain should be able to sufficiantly kick their butts for a turn or two before being offed.
You make good points Prittstift, genestealers slogging across the board is no real threat, however scutttling genestealers are a problem, they can get close to you the first turn they appear or the second.
That is what i was trying to get across though it seems that i did a very bad job of it.
It is the easiest way for nid players to ensure their genestealers arrive in enough force to actually do something to HQ and terminators. They are a real pain to play against.
So i got a game tonight at around 600 points.
I was thinking
2 tac sqauds one with lascannon.
1 chapter master with combi plasma and relic blade.
1 attack bike with multi melta
(turns out i had more models than i thought lol)
The idea was in turn one move the tac sqaud without the LC to either flank depending on genestealer deployment.
Move bike to use melta on tyrant.
Use orb bombardment, LC and MM on tyrant in turn one hopefully take off two wounds.
Move captain towards the first tac squad which moved.
Use LC and MM on tyrant again in turn two and static boltgun shots on genstealers behind the gaunts even though they will get 5+ save I still think it would be worth it, just to get rid of them, then I tink he will rush the tac and chapter master with gaunts which would work well coz he could only then use the venom cannon on the last tac sqaud.
Basically by turn two I plan to have the tyrant gone and one unit of stealers.
Anyoen think this is possible with this list?