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I'm not sure if this topic has been brought up. I've seen some discussion on special weapons, but not combi.
Before I hack up my special weapons to make combi weapons, I'm fairly torn between which combi weapons to take especially on my tac squads & scouts:
Combi-Melta: Seems fairly common but more so for chaos marines as theyre better off in assault with w BP & CCW and a bolter standard. However, our SM don't have that luxury, so wouldn't we be better off rhino rushing then rapid firing?
Pro - can instant kill multi would T4,
Con - assuming the wound is allocated to a multi would which it likely wont be
Pro - can destroy armor 14; anti armor weapon
Con - the rest of the squad's fire is wasted
Modeling Con - Must hack a meltagun
Combi-Plasma: I don't think I've seen this as much. Is there a reason? It seems fairly good IMO.
Pro - Potentially the most bang for your buck. Rapid fire = 2 shots for a 1 shot weapon
Con - Double chances to kill yourself, but realistically the odds are low for that
Pro - 24" range allows bolters to hit too
Con - 1 shot, not that big of a deal especially if it kills something
Pro - Utilization - allows your bolters to hit something useful too as I would use it more so as an anti infantry weapon
Modeling Pro - Can easily use the plasma pistols no one ever uses to make this. Allows the other special weapons to be used
Combi-Flamer: Has the potential to kill the most and easily make the weapon's points back.
Pro - If you get 1 shot, at least it'll never miss
Con - Low str, low AP; cant damage tanks or give armor a scare.
Pro - Ignores cover
Con - no range, might not even get to use it after paying so much for it.
Modeling Con - Must chop up a flamer
Right now I have combi plasmas made for 3 troops choices, but a lot of battle reports & army lists without combi plasmas have me thinking. At 1500 pts I have 2 full 10 man tac w plasma rifles, a 5 man tac, and 5 man scouts w HB & bolters. Tacs have the combi weapons, scouts nothing yet. What would work for each? I have 3 of each special weapon at my disposal plus 3 combi plasmas already made.
Last edited by Astynax; April 1st, 2009 at 06:34.
i use combi-meltas the most. I usually stick a few on my sternguard to add some more versatility at a cheap price. combi plasmas are pretty good, they can take on heavy infantry and light vehicles decently, but not as useful as the combi melta IMO. Combi-flamers are still pretty solid, i don't use them much except maybe on a tactical squad ocassionally, i usually take the melta or plasma because those can achieve things that your normal bolter could not, like tank busting or anti heavy infantry.
I personally vote for the flamer, though it depends on the army you face.
IG or Orks die in the bucket-load to flamers, so getting that extra template can really cut a lot more from the target squad. Also, if you get the chance to land the template over rear armour of a vehicle as well as the squad, then a 6 will score you a glance on rhino-equivelents =)
Plasma is nice and has its uses, but in reality the only perk over the combi-melta is its rapid-fire, which stops you assaulting...
Melta is the best in most respects, able to hit MCs and vehicles with a really punishing hit, which is what you would want to use those 10points on anyway!
Its a coin toss between flamer and melta, and really its down to the army you face...
I'm a combi-melta man, as I only put combi-weapons on my Sternguard and my Captains. The extra BS of the Captain means the -flamer variant is a waste, and the Sternguard are already more than capable against infantry. The -plasma variant could be useful, but I've had bad luck with overheats in the past.
To get in melta range you'll either get assaulted or assault MCs the next turn. Neither would be good for tac squads. Theyre too expensive to just use as a tie up group.
Vs T6: Melta is 4/6 hit x 5/6 wound = 56%
Vs T6: Plasma is 4/6 hit x 4/6 wound x 2 shots = 89%. Also potential to deal 2 wounds, or 1 shot with no chance of being assaulted.
Vs T8: Melta is 4/6 hit x 4/6 wound = 33%
Vs T8: Plasma is 4/6 hit x 2/6 wound x 2 shots = 44% Also potential to deal 2 wounds, or 1 shot with no chance of being assaulted.
I would have to agree w melta w sternguard since they cost so much and can use special ammo for the other jobs, but tac squads arent as versatile.
It just seems that while the argument thus far is that plasma only gains rapid fire and loses out on the rest, I'm thinking that maybe melta only gains slightly more anti armor & loses out on the rest. There isn't that much AV 14 out there. Even vs AV 13, if you have the mobility to reach a tank within 12", shouldn't you have the mobility to at least hit from the side and double plasma the side?
Combi-weapons are not good choice.
On characters - they are close combat, take pistol
Core - 10 points is too much for what you get, buy lascanon/plasma insted combi on sergeant
Sternguard-cheap, but really you need that?
Fast attack - buy meltabombs instead
Problem with combi-weapons is their price and their synergy with squads.
Tactical squads - lascannon/plasma is a combination of the past for some of us. Meltaguns and missile launchers are what I use, plus powerfists on my Sergeants. A combi-melta in a drop pod can really help, or even a combi-flamer.
Sternguard - yes, combi-weapons enhance the squad beyond the point of being simply versatile. It makes their versatility devastating.
Fast attack - meltabombs on what? Meltabombs are a waste of time on Assault squads or bikers, when you can buy a powerfist or meltaguns.
I only take one combi weapon, a melta on my sternguards (its not worth the points in other units). This allows me to use 10 shots of special rounds (which I love) and it has an emergency Tank/MC killer
Combi flamers are a waste, but on a character against nids it could be useful...
I dont see the point in combi plasmas, i would just take a plasma gun in a squad or a plasma pistol.
i use a bunch of combi meltas in a footslog space wolves army
wolf scouts: the scouts carry one meltagun, the wolf guard leader has a combi-melta; 2 melta shots at rear armour since they come from the opponent's table edge
15 blood claws with 1 meltagun, and one wolf guard leader with combi-melta (and thunderhammer) with the thunder hammer you wouldn't get the extra attack for a pistol anyways, so the combi weapon doesn't take any attacks away.
(i have 3 identical squads of this)
after a few games with the same opponent, they might start move their vehicles forward from fear of the scouts, which is just fine for me with all these meltas peppered throughout the army.