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I have had a terrible time with marines, but I have found a buyer for my army and I am thinking of investing my time into a new army. I want my next army to be shooty because I play nids as well and I pretty much just want the opposite of them haha. So atm I am leaning towards Eldar or Guard. I am not a huge fan of Tau models so that rules them out.
Anyway I have been looking at the new book and I like it a lot. I would really like to play a tank based list, I am just curious though how effective do you think a tank list would be compared to an infantry gun line, because I want to get the most out of a book as possible, being a tournament player? Being a nids player I would cringe at the gun line. Also as marines I wouldn't wanna come up against it either.
My basic 1700 tank list would include 4-5 Leman Russ variants, with 3 veteran squads as troop choices, pretty much with a mix of melta and plasma guns, all in some variant of the Valkyrie. The infantry gun line lists kinda write themselves, most likely just load up on heavy bolters and auto cannons.
Any thoughts would be welcome.
I'm one of those balanced list type players, so I include both infantry gun-lines and tanks in my lists. It depends on what you want really, as both styles have their ups and downs. I'm certainly not one of the top authorities on the Guard forum, but I'll do my best to give you a brief run-down:
- Lots and lots of wounds and Heavy/Special weapons on the board resulting in ridiculous amounts of firepower
- Can take advantage of Orders
- Pretty much the entire army is scoring
- Even though you have lots of wounds all of those wounds die very easily; (I would say kill-point liability here, but our ability to bunch up squads has made that less of an issue).
- Cumbersome giving maneuverable armies a decisive advantage
- The sheer number of models means you can't make much strategic use of the terrain as you'll have a difficult enough time fitting everything on the board to begin with
- Makes for a long and tedious painting process and is ultimately extremely boring to play with
- You have some very durable units dishing out a lot of high-S low-AP pain
- Hard to kill kill-points
- Intimidating as hell
- Very few scoring units
- Point sink resulting in 'All of your eggs in one basket' syndrome
Your suggested list might work, but you have to be very careful to keep those Vet squads alive as long as possible seeing as how they're your only scoring units and are very fragile ones at that. The Guard really need to use multiple squads to effectively hold objectives, we're not Space Marines or Necron Warriors and can't take much punishment.
If I had to choose I would go Gun Line. Fielding a Tank army means fielding squadrons, which means concentrating firepower; (2 Battle Cannons and 6 Heavy Bolters firing at 5 Marines is just overkill). Gun Lines on the other hand, taking advantage of Commissars, bunching up, and Orders, can do a lot of really nasty stuff and are ultimately more customizable: Flamer/Power Weapon tar-pit assault units, Lascannon/Plasma Gun MeQ/TeQ and Tank killers, Autocannon/Grenade Launcher light vehicle and high T killers, Heavy Bolter/Flamer horde killers, Meltagun tank killers, etc. Your tanks can be chosen with specific roles in mind too, but at a much higher points cost and they don't get Orders to augment those roles.
Last edited by counterwavecounter; April 18th, 2009 at 16:02.
"The man in the bowler hat is Mr. Average in his anonymity. I, too, wear one; I have no great desire to stand out from the masses." - Rene Magritte
If you want a really good combo for guard I would suggest making a mechanized army for your IG, it combines the hard hitting power of Tanks with the point scoring mobility of a Fast attack army. It up to you how you make the list particularity but you want to have a chimera for most of your infantry squads. Then you just back them up with tanks and long range support. If you are really devious you can take the grenadier doctrine to replace of your regular infantry with deadly storm troopers. My crons have fought my buddy David who fields this kind of army, and he is very hard to beat, he throws Heavy strength low Ap shots everywhere then drops a 10 man squad packing two plasma and one bolter. Thats a ton of pain that is hard to stop.
When the battlefield becomes silent, and the crust of the earth cools to when it was first born, My men and I will roam this land.
Tanks are going to be great, mech Guard is very nasty in the new book. You've got tons of cheap transports with cheap Vets full of special weapons riding in, Hellhound Variants to thin hordes, and the awesome Russes and Artillery.
You've definitely got the right idea. Consider this.
Company Command Squad w/ meltas in Chimera
Vets w/ meltas in Chimera
Eradicators, Demolishers, Hydras (demolishes Valkyries and other light vehicles/skimmers).
Lots of armor, lots of templates, lots of shots, lots of melta.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
There is always the Half n' Half.
Half your army is a Gunline backed up w/ some LRBT/arty and loads up infantry and HW.
Then you have a mounted element, perhaps a 25man platoon all mounted in chimeras outflanking, some Vets in Valks, and even outflanking tank(s) if you take Creed.
The great thing about the new Codex is that you don't have to go "all or none" when it comes to armor.
I've been a Guard Commander for a good few years now.
If you do plan on buying them make sure you're into your painting because im 120 guardsmen in now and still not finished.
Also you have to be prepared to lose ALOT before you start winning because it will take you a good few games to get in any kind of stride and use your army to it's full potential.
I personally dont think that 10 men squads are enough... even at rapid fire range your talking 4s to hit and 5s to wound on most armies and it's simply too unreliable. The new 'dex should solve this problem by not only leting you field armies in groups of anything up to 50 but with a Rapid Fire and a "First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire!" (+1 shots for lasguns) order we Guard players may actually be able to bring down a squad in time before we're crushed into matter.
Tanks are so - so. I personally think they are ridiculously over priced (considering a Carnifex is only 85 pts and has 4 wounds and T 6) as it is without them hiking it up again in the new Codex. I have 3 LRBTs and 1 Demolisher but I think I'll be dropping some of them when the new 'dex arrives. You basically have to get lucky with them Because with them being so easyily destroyed with anything from a Kustom Mega Blaster to a Krak Missile to a Lascannon being able to finish them off with a single shot to the side or back or your tank. On average you will get 2 shots per game before the tanks are gone and any given shot can scatter harmlessly wide of a target and end up wasted. and on top of that with nearly EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN ARMY EXCEPT THE GUARD getting force field invul saves and other random saves, you could end up killing just 1 model... Nice way to spend 145 (min price for a LRBT in the current 'dex) points huh?
You need Missile Launchers if you are to succeed with the guard. Buy all 3 support slots for you HQ as Heavy Weapons Squads. You need to be firing 3 St 4 Ap 6 small blasts per turn with an Anti-Tank Missile launcher/Lascannon team combo. (another rule that bothers me... you can only have 0-2 of every type of team. Why? would it really hurt that much to allow us 1 more set of missile launchers?)
Basically the Guard are the unwanted step child of Warhammer 40k. We have to deal with unjust rules, sh*t saves and expesive heavy support. I'm hoping this will change with the new 'dex but I've only read through quickly to get a feel for whats coming so I can't say for sure if we're going to be screwed over again.
Looking back over my post it appears that I'm a bitter twat who wishes he'd gone for glory with the Space Marines or the Tau but I assure you I'm not. I love my Guardsmen and I wouldn't dream of collecting anyone else, Because when they do win and things do go atleast fairly in the game with both players rolling average rolls. They are an impressive army to field and can be very dangerous. There will be many a dissapointed night of gaming ahead... but when you do clinch that victory it will be soooo goddamn sweet you'll be shedding tears of joy for hours after.
Let me know what you choose and feel free to P.M me with any questions.
"GOD DAMN THEM ORKS" -
Senior Officer Corvin - 666th Cadian Defence Force
To answer your question yes. Chimeras are now a cheap effective light tank when combine with a unit that can carry multiple special weapons, can be deadly to any opponent with 5 fire points. The hellhound variants are really good at anti-infantry. The leman russes and barrage weapons are good and have different variants to fit your playstyle.
There is a learning curve but with the new codex we can beat any army.
Chimera multi laser heavy bolter heavy stubber+ vet squad 3 grenade launchers autocnnon
that's an autocannon, 3 grenade launchers, a heavy bolter, a heavy stubber, a multi laser, and a lasgun firing out of 12 armour for only 155 points, Oh they also score! I love this country.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
Chimeras would be good ideas...
Im not sure about all these Vets that everyone seems to take on here...
Theyre 30 pts dearer in the new dex just for bs 4 and a few extra upgrades...
not really worth it...
Ill see thought when my new dex gets here...
another 2 weeks though =(
"GOD DAMN THEM ORKS" -
Senior Officer Corvin - 666th Cadian Defence Force