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With the ability to combine squads I was wondering - why conscripts? for what good reason? Here are my reasons for and against:
with the valhallan guy you can do without number. (If you volenteer to remove the remainder, so they come on next turn will your opponent gety a Kill point? Each time you do so?
Against (Mostly on a 2xsquads of combined infantry vs 20 conscripts, it isn't affected much.):
1) For just one point per man you get WS 1 higher (50% more shooting hits on your lasgun armed conscripts)
2) Conscripts are LD5. Line squad sgnts are LD8. You don't have LD bubbles anymore. The only way of adding LD to conscripts would be with a Independant character, who can then be picked out in melee.
3) You cannot add a commissar to your conscripts. you can to your combined infantry (Stubborn LD 9, for approx 45 points for a power sword commissar. He can't be picked out in melee either, or give away kill points)
4) You can't add special or heavy weapons to conscripts.
What could they be for? The 1st rank, 2nd rank order - with no sgnt or heavy/special they're pure lasguns, to maximise the orders effects. Unfortunately, they're LD5, and have no vox, so it's less than 1/3 chance of successfully pulling off your limited orders. (15 out of 36).
The problem with Send in the Next Wave! is that the conscripts might die before you get a chance to use it, since it has to be done at the beginning of your turn, giving the opponent a chance to run them down in the assault phase. If they are dead by the time your turn rolls around you can't use it.
So you have this huge unit of conscripts but you're going to be scared to get them into a fight, which is beyond ridiculous. Instead of buying SitNW! you'd probbaly be better off buying a Commissar Lord for them.
If you run less than fifty, then you may as well use the 75 points to buy another Conscript Squad. I'd rather have two squads of 30 Conscripts than one 50-man squad with SitNW!, they would be cheaper overall too and still benefit from Chenkov granting them stubborn. For what it's worth with leadership 5 anyway, but LD5 is better than what their LD would normally be after losing a combat I guess.
Personally I'm running one Commissar in the army for one of my regular platoons. If I want I can form them into a 30-man tarpit, but if I choose not to the points spent on the Commissar is no great loss and doesn't really dilute my firepower like spending hundreds of points on Ogryns or Conscripts would do.
Last edited by muukip; April 30th, 2009 at 15:09.
No, send in the next wave works like without number. When they're removed, they walk back on. It just has the option of manually removing them instead of waiting for removal by death.
Also, I imagine that they do count for KPs because it specifies they're removed as casualties.
Last edited by jh316; April 30th, 2009 at 15:30.
Actually you're probably right, ignore that.
what would have made conscripts worth it and would have still kept in with the fluff is if you could either
1) include a single commissar in the unit
2) they did not offer any kill points but did not count as scoring
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Conscripts are in the codex for the same reason the Autocannon leman russ is (and to a lesser extent, why the griffon is back), tradition/history.
It's a shout out to people who loved conscripts but don't realize (or don't like) that basic infantry are now better at the same job.
To make conscripts worth it they would need a normal commissar. Not because that would be balanced or they deserve it, but they're competing with basic infantry, and those infantry have them.
/edit I forgot to mention, the thread title is pretty nasty, tone it down. People aren't 'idiots' for playing armies that aren't at the bleeding edge of optimization.
Last edited by Tible; April 30th, 2009 at 20:34.
It's not personal, I'm just like that.
Reasons to Use Conscripts
1. They charge your conscripts, you have commissar lord and cheknov giving the squad stubborn with ld 10 they pass ld, at the start of your turn you remove the conscripts, the enemy is left clumped up for templates not to mention the massive infantry squads who will get first rank second rank fire.
2. Tie up units with a low number of attacks, ex drop pod dreadnaught gets to fight a unit with 20 wounds and has ld 10 and stubborn, that you can remove at any time when you are ready to blow it up.
3. Numbers, the enemy eventually takes out your combined regular guardsmen squad, only to face a new conscript squad.
4.No win is as fluffy as winning by overwhelming numbers of guardsmen
However i have made different list that focus on taking advantage of send in the next wave with yarrick and cheknov providing stubborn and others boasting ld, regular infantry squads is your best bet, or play testing like crazy.
regular conscripts without the rule is pointless in my opinion
Last edited by CKO; April 30th, 2009 at 22:39.
I really dont understand GWs thought process when deciding conscripts dont get commissars.
we have a mob of untrained undisciplined troops and a man whos only job is to ensure discipline. hmmmmmm lets keep them as far away as posible
really just doesint make sense to me fluffwise
if a squad with a commissar lord uses the sintnw ability will the Lord come in with them? I assume no but just checking.
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