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Well I have recently aquired the new codex, and I must admit that even though some changes are more than welcome others were completely uncalled for. Yes order are nice, and so are the penal legion, conscripts and tanks - but things like storm troopers, veterans and valkyrie brought nothing but disapointment.
My main field of concern is the nerfing of infiltrating armies, that rely on scouts, infiltration, deepstrike. Right now I feel that these armies took a punch in the stomach, and the player is pretty much forced to use special characters in order to make his tactic possible.
I know this issue didnt arrise for many IG players since most focus on tanks and strong gunline for base, but for people like me who play airborne regiments - things are looking very grim. I can no longer infiltrate vets to form a solid firebase on a flank. Storm troopers are too expensive for what they do. And infantry cant infiltrate period ... Any ideas???
Last edited by WraithGuardian; May 5th, 2009 at 01:31.
We can deploy everything now with 5th ed apart from the dawn of war deployment. Which we have a trick we can use with the new ig. Which I'll mention later.
Valkyries are going to be a pain in the ass for our opponents. Especially if they come in late game in the flanks. Just don't mind that you lose a few guys in the high speed drop. Storm troopers don't need valkyries to to deep strike so they can help contest.
Also something I realised in the 5th is that it is not about killing. Mostly about being at the right place at the right time when the game ends.
With Dawn of war, you can combine the squads into two big squads and put your company command next to them. I personally run two 50man blobs. The forward marching one has 5 meltaguns and power weapons. The firebase one has 5 lascannons in home base. That is 5 weapons that is extremely hard to silence.
"Hard pounding, gentlemen: but we shall see who can pound the longest."
Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington
The question arises: Can a non-outflanking unit be carried in an outflanking, non-dedicated transport?
And the worrying thing is, the precedent is no, they cannot (as in, the ability to scout/infiltrate is lost by units that have another unit (a character) join them that does not also have the ability).
It's possible that only units that can definitely outflank (as in, storm troopers, ratlings etc.) will also be able to outflank in Valkyries.
It's obvious where the RAI is, but the RAW is not so clear... not so clear to me, anyway!
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
There were some things I don't like about the new dex, namely no more army-wide camo cloaks (but my friends had been getting annoyed at that), no more gaunt (I now pay 15 points more for a commissar lord with inferior rules), and I used to outflank my entire army, but still, overall I think the new codex is still better.
While basic vets cannot infiltrate anymore they have moved to troops, which is huge in now you can field more of them with the option of fielding only them.
And yes you have to take a character in order to let a platoon outflank, but with the way platoons are structured now that had to happen. They wouldn't let multiple platoons outflank when each platoon can have 100-130 men and 6 chimeras in them.
And stormies are heavily priced, but if you used to play grenadiers and miss the old stormies then get vets with the grenadiers doctrine, it's the same thing except you get an extra special weapon and a heavy weapon.
And how did the valkyrie bring you disappointment? It's an incredibly cheap, incredibly lethal (either anti-infantry with the missile pod valk, or anti-tank with the vendetta) AV12 tank that can scout and deepstrike, and you can take enough of them to play a all drop army.
I would suggest an Al'Rahem platoon (mounting them in chimeras is now viable and completely awesome), a Harker vet squad, and then another platoon and company command squad (with astropath for mroe control over your force that you didn't have before) and all that good stuff loaded up in valks and vendettas mix in with some inquisitorial storm troopers if you miss the old, cheap STs.
And Cadaver Junkie, I would say that the valk can still outflank and scout with a unit that cannot inside them, but I don't frequent ultra competitive circles much (even the tourney's I go to everybody's pretty chill). I would be very interested if anyone could shed some light on the subject however.
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I don't see any argument against it since Scout and Outflank are built-in to the Valykrie.Originally Posted by MadLarkinSquads don't join transports, they just use them, and, for all intensive purposes, transports are treated as different units, ie: they must be shot at and assaulted separately, they can fire at a different target, they don't have to maintain coherency, they don't fallback when the squad does, etc.Originally Posted by Cadaver Junkie
Welcome back Cadaver!
Last edited by counterwavecounter; May 5th, 2009 at 14:01.
"The man in the bowler hat is Mr. Average in his anonymity. I, too, wear one; I have no great desire to stand out from the masses." - Rene Magritte
Hmm... Airbone Regiment? Looks like GW think that Droop Assault a Company in the Empire is more like the job of SMURFs, Elysians are now more like Air Cavalry. I am trying to experiment with the new Air Cavalry Regiment concept, but so far I still cant convince myself to droop Heavy Tanks. These is more or less my untested 1000 pts idea:
Company command squad w/ carapace armor + sniper rifle + Mortar & Master of Ordinance.
Troops 390 pts
3x Grenadiers squads w/ GLs & MLs.
Fast 500 pts
1x Valkiries w/ HBs
The other option is a company of Penal Legion. Dont sounds very heroic or glorious, but it can be fluffy.
"The only valid test is combat; the only valid result is victory"
Ardak Kumerian, Klingon Admiral.
The Chaos and Space Marine dexes lost the ability to have all-infiltrating armies too. I think they have been making a concerted effort to remove them since 5th edition came out and gave all infiltrators outflank.
I made an Elysian-themed army list based on the Forgeworld models as an airborne army that had already landed. Not as exciting I know but it makes more sense, I don't think drop troops are meant to drop right on top of the enemy's face. I still thought the army list was interesting though, it lacked heavy equipment and relied on mortars etc.
Last edited by muukip; May 5th, 2009 at 14:16.
With regard to outflanking with units of Stormtroopers inside, this can't be done either, as they roll individually for their outflanking move, and it is mentioned in the BRB that unless its a dedicated transport, then embarking can only take place in the movement phase.
That kinda sucks- it would be nice for Stormtroopers to be able to take Valks as a dedicated transport.
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