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Valkyries are the best for their cost. I field them alone.
Valkyries are the best for their cost. I field them in squadrons.
Vendettas are the best for their cost. I field them alone.
Vendettas are the best for their cost. I field them in squadrons.
Which is the better, the Valkyrie or the Vendetta? Place these in a guard perspective where costs matter the most.
How do you equip them? And how do you field them?
Comment with your own ideas and arguments.
Last edited by Mr_Wayne; May 10th, 2009 at 13:12.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
The valkyrie and the vendetta can't really be compared directly like this imho.. as they fulfill different roles on the battlefield, a tank hunter and a horde killer.. both can be very good and adds some high velocity to the else much static imperial guard army..
Generally though I consider the vendetta to be most cost efficient (at least it's the most likely of the two to bring it's points back and a cheap source to alot of lascannons).. but as a transport I consider the valkyrie superior as it's able to fire the multilaser and both of the pods at the same time even when moving up to 12"..
Either way I think both of them should always be fielded alone if you're able to do so.. though they can occasionally be taken as squadrons if you really need to pack alot of fast attack choices into your army.. best alone though..
Every time somebody say that think that somenthing is better, is like a forum war. So... let's say that my favorite is the Vendetta, because my LRBTs already cover the anti-MEQ/anti-horde rol so well, that the anti-tank skimmer complement the tank well in my style of play.
BTW, I avoid use squadrons of vehicles if possible.
"The only valid test is combat; the only valid result is victory"
Ardak Kumerian, Klingon Admiral.
The Hellstrike Missiles aren't blast weapons. They're just ordnance. The multiple missile pods would be cool if they weren't grossly over-priced, but paying Vendetta points to tool your Valkyrie to fight Orks, Nids and Guard seems a bit daft to me. Swapping the Valkyrie's multilaser for a lascannon makes it a half-arsed AT vehicle for 15pts less than the Vendetta, but in all cases you're better off paying the extra points for the Vendetta.
The Valkyrie isn't a bad vehicle, it's still a Fast Skimmer with transport capacity and Grav Chute Insertion, but the Vendetta's twin-linking does a lot to mitigate the suckiness of it's BS3, plus you can always swap two TLLCs for a pair of Hellfury Missiles (2 shots per game, but much longer range and lower AP than your rocket pods) for no extra cost if you want a bit of anti-horde. The heavy bolter sponsons for both seem like a bit of a waste to me; if you've got a vehicle that can move 12" and still fire a weapon, the last thing you'll want to fire is a heavy bolter sponson.
So yeah. I'd go for the Vendetta every time.
Overall, I would say the two are effectively equal in abilities.
The Valk with rocket pods is the same points as the vendetta, but has the advantage against infantry, not just hordes. Two large blasts every turn that can both be lobbed while moving up to 12" with the multilaser is hard to beat. I don't think I would ever kit one with heavy bolters though as these guys want to be bolting around the battlefield as fast as possible.
The Vendetta is a great ship as well, the big disadvantage over the Valkyrie being that it's really only effective in its base config against vehicles and MCs and can't fire alot of weapons when moving over 6". In general as you'll want these guys to be moving slow enough to fire all of their weapons and will likely, at some point in the game, have to engage infantry, I would pay the points for heavy bolters. I mean they cost almost nothing and you'll be moving slow enough to use them.
Hellstrikes and Hellfurys are just a waste of space. The Valk shouldn't have anti-armor weapons, especially single shot ones with less than lascannon stats. If you're gonna do that why not make it not suck and get Vendettas? And the Vendetta really doesn't want anti-infantry, especially more single shot weapons that have an almost cloned statline from the rocket pods. If you're running hellfury's , why aren't you just packing Valks?
Overall saying either ship is better is just preference.
As far as squadrons, the advantages other than not burning other FA slots are few and far between especially on a vehicle that comes with free extra armor. Run them alone if you have the slots, squadron them up if you don't.
Last edited by Mastershake; May 10th, 2009 at 15:34.
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I went for the lone vendetta's, not particularly because they're better but because, like mareo said, i have a pair of LRBT to deal with enemy infantry and not much AT so they were more useful in my army than the Valk's.
I'm rather impressed with the Valyrie with Multiple Rocket Pods. Especially when transporting Storm Troopers.
I had a squadron used against my Orks to amazing effect! They move 12", Have Multilasers, and a 5" blast defensive weapon. Granted, I didn't quite handle them properly, being my first game versus them and all.. But regardless, the set up was effective. By turn 3 they dropped ~600 points of Orks while suffering minimal casualties.
Turn 1: 12" Movement, Multilasers and MRPs, the BS3 really helped versus a horde army as mine, since the 6x blasts scattered into other units, inflicting a decent amount of casualties.
Turn 2: Repeat, moving backwards 12". My horde was now soft enough to deploy the ST's.
Turn 3: Turbo Boost + Deepstriking Plasma and Grenade ST's, with rerollable scatter dice for DSing (all three managed direct hits or minimal scatter distance) and dropped a Nobz mob, Looted Boomgun Wagon, and Battle Wagon.
One encounter is not enough to say.. but I'm definitely on the look out for MRP Valkyries now!
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Hellstrikes definitely; as you say, less than lascannon stats which are hardly impressive even with the Ordnance best-of 2D6 armour pen, PLUS they're BS3 which means there's a 50% chance you'll waste them. Hellfuries, though, would still be classed as Defensive Weapons and thus can be used when moving up to 12", plus the Large Blast makes the BS3 much less of an issue Single-shot is still a pain, and you're losing two TLLCs, but you get them for free and they have a huuuuge range.Hellstrikes and Hellfurys are just a waste of space.
I ran two Vendetta's the other day against a friends CSM. First turn they popped a LR and a Defiler. The Term squad inside the LR disembarqed and on his turn he ran them towards one of my Vet squads in cover. On my turn my two Vendies opened fire on the termies in the open, and wiped all 5 in one turn of shooting. The rest of the game he spent shooting all his heavy weapons at the Vendies instead of the 3 LR exterminators rolling his left flank.
What did I learn from this?
Basically, that against MEQS, I think the Vendetta is a very solid choice over the Valkyrie. No, I don't shoot as much, but three (almost) guaranteed lascannon shots that wound on 2+ (with instagib on most) with no armour save (and can kill armour very effectively as well) is preferable to 3 multilaser shots that miss half the time and allow saves to everyone but the most basic of troops, and a couple of low str barely AP blast templates that still scatter.
Against Orks and other swarms, I'm a little more torn. Against Nids, I would be tempted to take the Valk (for those blast templates), but I'm still thinking Vendetta's for the Monstrous creatures (HT and Carnifex are scary, scary versus rank and file str 3). Against Orks, I would probably go with the Valkyrie, the Str 6 can kill cans and trucks, and the rockets are a bad day waiting to happen to a greenskin.
Tau are so mech heavy, I am thinking Vendetta.
Crons are definately Vendetta's, let's see you I'll be back after I spread your metallic atoms all over the playing field by way of supercharged las light.
Eldar are either way I think, but I am leaning towards Valkyries with them unless your opponet is known to run a mech heavy list.
So what's all this mean? Basically that Mastershake and Frank are right on. Both are good choices depending on your style. Your opponet's army choice is a huge factor in what variant to take as well. I think overall though, in an all comers list, I would have to go with at least two Vendetta's. 6 almost guaranteed kills a turn versus infantry and the ability to tear up vehicles is huge in my opinion. Not to mention the psychological impact that your opponet has to face in seeing 6 very highly mobile TL lascannons on the table, and the fire that they divert from your russes in an effort to kill them.
So, in summary. Both are decent choices, but I think the Vendetta is the superior choice if I'm forced to choose one over the other.
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