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Settle an argument; if you've got a Land Raider that gets Shaken and then moves 12" in it's movement phase, i.e cruising speed, it can fire no weapons; but, if it gets Shaken and then moves up to 6", i.e combat speed, it can still fire a single weapon.
That's right.... right? :-s
The FAQ says "either moves 12" or suffers a Stunned or Shaken result", so moving 12" after being Shaken and still firing a weapon is out, but if you're moving 6" you're normally allowed to fire 2 weapons due to PotMS and therefore if you suffer a Shaken result and move up to 6" the normal weapon can't fire, but the PotMS shot is still good.
That's the way we've played it round these here parts since I started again in February, yet suddenly moving 6" and firing after being Shaken is dead-against RAW. It's not, in my opinion; it's not even against RAI, as far as I can tell.
I reread the FAQ to brush up real quick and remember how it works more clearly now.
If you move 6" you can fire two weapons.
If you move 12" you can fire one weapon.
If you are crew shaken/stunned and move 6" you can fire one weapon.
If you are crew shaken/stunned and move 12" you can fire one weapon.
If you want to get technical the whole bottom half of the rule makes no sense: "a weapon that has moved at combat speed can fire two weapons"... LOL Don't ask me what they were thinking when they wrote that genius sentence! In an FAQ too! lol
But anyways to prove why you always get to fire one weapon:
It does not give an and/or statement for 12" move and shaken/stunned. It just gives an or statement. In programming, as well as electronics or any type of logic flow, if an and feature is not given, instead just an or feature, it means if either of those statements are true, proceed to the result. If both statements are true, still proceed to the same result, unless told otherwise.
So if I have to eat a pine cone if someone says John or someone says sally, then should two people each pick one name and say said names simultaneously, I still will only eat one pine cone. I wont NOT eat a pine cone! This may be a bad example, but I am trying to simplify it.
As I read that, it spells out like this picture I made for you:
A = Moved 12"
B = Crew Shaken/Stunned
C = Fire One weapon
Lets look at that picture in a binary sense.
1 = True statement
0 = False statement
A | B | C
0 | 0 | 0
0 | 1 | 1
1 | 0 | 1
1 | 1 | 1
So you can see that if C is a 1 then you fire 1 weapon since it is a true statement. When it is a false statment, you can fire two weapons yay!
Another way to look at it:
LET A = Moved 12"
LET B = Crew Shaken/Stunned
LET C = Moved 6"
IF A or B THEN
Fire One Weapon
ELSE IF C AND NOT B THEN
Fire Two Weapons
Now my programing skills are very bad and juvenile. But I think those two examples (One is an electric circuit picture and the other is Q basic I believe. lol) get the point across. Either way as long as one is satisfied it doesn't matter if the other is satisfied. It is still going to do the end result: Fire one weapon.
Hope this helps!
Last edited by Goblin; May 11th, 2009 at 17:04.
Are you reading an alternate version of the PotMS rules? It sounds like you're referencing the older version, the one that's still active in codexes like Black Templars and Witch Hunters.
The version in the DH FAQ is the new version, the one that is now in the latest Space Marines codex. And it states that PotMS always allows the vehicle "to fire one more weapon than would normally be allowed". That's pretty basic. If the vehicle is stunned or shaken, it can still fire at least one weapon because of PotMS. If you moved 12", you can still fire one weapon because of PotMS.
If you pop smoke launchers, you can still fire one weapon because of PotMS!
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Goblin - you have entirely too much time on your hands
LOL - good stuff !
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet -- to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women. That is best!
I always think of it this way:
If my Land Raider is not destroyed, it can always fire 1 weapon, regardless of other events.
Truly magnificent, especially with our version of Smoke Launchers.
2H - LEGIO HYDRA
Also, what's nice is if you have a GKLRC, even if you are shaken and moved 12", you can still fire your hurricane bolters and 1 other weapon.
PS - Goblin, that has got to be the geekiest example I've seen here in LO...lol
Last edited by jy2; May 11th, 2009 at 17:40.
EDIT: Just checked the Karnaugh map for that. You would be correct in your assumptions. Heheheh
Last edited by Hockeyman506; May 11th, 2009 at 23:00.