Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Not too long ago I picked up a bunch of codices, including WH. There's no way I can afford to start up a new army right now, but I like looking through the books and dreaming. Sue me. I also like asking questions like this as an education as to what I can expect to find on the battlefield.
So after reading the most excellent mech tactica stickied above, and poring over various posts/army lists, etc., I SEEM to be seeing the following:
Sisters + Rhino = good
Double Exorcist = good
Large Seraphim squad + double pairs hand flamers = good
Small Seraphim squad + meltabombs + double pairs inferno pistols + Eviscerator-equipped VSS and possibly Jumpy Canoness = good
Everthing else = bad
This kinda bugs me, as with four squads of sisters in rhinos with flamer/heavy flamer combo, plus one of each seraphim squad and the exorcists, there's 280 points left in an 1,850-point list (the standard in many tournaments I've seen). Yes, I could put another sisters squad in there for a total of five, but come ON, people! Is there NOTHING else that a competitive list can have? Sure, a second canoness, but I'd hesitate to put her in the anti-infantry seraphim squad, since they can't hit and run. Celestians/Dominions in Rhinos? Are Repentia THAT useless? Not even Pentitent Engines? If not, then what would YOU add to the above?
Note this isn't in army lists as I'm more interested in what kind of competitive WH-only (no inducted IG here, that's too easy!) unit you would stick in a 280-point slot in a mech list. I can build the list myself -- I'm just curious about ideas.
Maybe, maybe, MAYBE if I like it enough, I'll start building it off my new Marines army later on.
So what else ... two jump canonesses? A third exorcist?
You could try a big firebase of heavy bolter retributers, good static long range firepower for all your infantry killing needs.
And, um ... assassins can sometimes be fun too.
Yes repentia are that bad.
As it stands, Canew, they are the most competative units in the codex, as disappointing as that is. Basically what you described is what I run consistently in most of my 1750 to 1850 games.
More often than not though, I add St. Celestine for the extra faith points, and she can be a right bear. Except when you lose 6 faith points when she dies.
But yeah, most of the other stuff doesn't really stand much use except in the hands of VERY experienced players. Penitent Engines are open topped, very fragile. Arco-flagellants and Repentia are way over-costed considering their limited use and general fragility. Sure, Repentia can tear stuff up in combat, but they need to get there first, and relying on Holy fury and running is not the way to do it.
Usually, extra Celestians or Retributors work well as cheap faith point generators and heavy weapons holders, but the bread and butter of the army is the Battle Sisters, Cannoness, Seraphim and Exorcists.
Sure, you could add some Grey Knights, but they take away from potential faith points and are very expensive. Generally not worth, it in most cases. Same goes for Inquisitorial units and the like.
Pretty much all armies look the same. Tis a bit sad.
5 Celestians with 2 meltas in an Immolator.
I find these squads rock.
They're also an excuse to use the cool looking Immolator models.
I'm trying to catalog every song with a reference to yetis or Sasquatch. Please help.
Sadly that's pretty much how it goes. 7 year old rules and the book was never super 'competitive' to begin with, so if you want to hold your ground against 5E armies, you're pretty much stuck using the most min-maxed force the book can offer.
Even Celestians are kind of gimped now with 5E and only troops scoring.
As some food for thought; Valkyries are not dedicated in the new IG book. Anyone can ride in them. I'm already in the process of converting my Sisters to air-cav
Double exorcists are good but triple exorcists are even better : ). But as many said to compete with the new armies you have to stick to the best, but this does not in any way make sisters of battle boring at all. But there are some units you haven't considered yet:
Retributors are a good alternative to a third exorcist 8 Battle sisters with 4 heavy bolters gives a good amount of long range support and the unit does not get much return fire as the rhinos and exorcists are a bigger threat in most people's eyes.
Zealots are a very good choice and a good scoring unit, I can't find the rules for them at the moment but give "zealots" a search on the forums. A priest with an eviscerator goes well with this unit.
Dominion are alright but can play a good anti role with x5 battle sisters x4 Melta Guns and a Rhino with EA and SL, don't bother with a superior or immolator you want to keep this squad cheap unless your really short on faith points but at 2k points 9 - 10 points is more than enough.
Penitent Engines are quite good at higher points values; they're fragile as hell and they take up valuable Exorcist space, but if they get into combat with anything they're going to tear it a new one, and because people know this (and because the Engines are far easier targets than the Rhinos) they'll draw a hell of a lot of fire. They also get Holy Rage, which is cool and makes them a real threat.
A unit of Dominions in an Immolator is horrendous to deal with; the twin-linked flamers on the vehicle can fire no matter how far it moves, and you then have a squad jumping out the back to put down 4 further templates (5 if you give the VSS a combi-flamer) onto anything that didn't get burned to death by the Immo. Or, if you're not a fan of (potentially Rending) templates, arm them with meltaguns and use the Immo to dump them 6" away from tanks. Another funny thing about Immolators is that they tend to draw a disproportionate amount of fire, because people don't know what they are but they look scary and thus must be stopped at all costs. Whilst this is not good for your Immolator or your Dominions, for your Rhinos it's a bit of breathing space
An Inquisitor Lord retinue in a Land Raider might also be fun to take if you can find the points spare. The WH have no restrictions in regards to their dedicated transports and as such it'd be a simple matter to throw together a fairly close-range Canoness-Celestian retinue, attach a Priest, deploy the LR empty, and use it to drive the Celestians (and their templates) into combat. Plus you've also got a Land Raider to play with, meaning less reliance on the Exorcists, and you can give the =][= retinue a fire-base load out to provide some extra long-range support. Alternatively you could just take the Land Raider and a single cheap-as-chips Inquisitor.
If you bring penitents bring them by themselves and not in squadrons. Open top vehicle squadrons are a bad idea. Any immobilized result is treated as destroyed so on a penetration the vehicle is dead on a 3+ due to it being open top.
Eeerrr, check page 33 in the Codex....
Last edited by SmokWawelski; May 12th, 2009 at 15:06.