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Surprisingly, I haven't seen any threads like this yet, so i'll give you my experiance playtesting with the new dex (I've played so many games in the past weeks my brain plays games even when i'm not).
Right: I'll start with every unit, going through the codex, and then move onto the orders.
Company Command Squad
First thing I noticed, there's no commissar option for this squad which left me perplexed to say the least. Hmm...anyone got an answer to that? Anyway, this is your main squad, and *should* be kept out of harm's way, however having two wouldn't hurt if you've got enough points to spare. A tactic i've found quite useful to to give the squad snipers and pin down the enemy while your commander issues orders. Medi-pack is always a good choice, FNP is a brilliant upgrade to the pathetic "ignores one failed save" of the old thing.
Where to start? Astropath is pointless-'nuff said. Officer of the Fleet is awesome if you know you're going to be playing enemies who like reinforcements, namely marines. Bodyguards are quite pointless unless every member in the command squad has a role, in which case they're just there to soak up fire. Master of Ordnance is awesome. Simply put, one of THE best squad upgrades in the game, unless of course, you plan to have your squad on the move, nice with the 4x snipers option I suggested earlier.
Quite pointless-moving on
Expensive. Yup. Close combat nightmare, but expensive, but I can see them being used in 500 pts doubles a lot.
Not as good as they look. Although they're the only thing that gets a force weapon, more often than not, it's not worth including them. Lightening arc, is quite flimsy, and will not really cause your opponent that much grief. Nightshroud, don't the harlequins have something very much the same? Another point: could either destroy the squad or get executed by a commissar. Not really a viable option.
Let me just get this out the way now. You CANNOT take your techpriest, I repeat CANNOT, as your HQ option for force organisation. Important phrase here, "do not use up any Force Organisation chart selections", meaning that the little box that says HQ-Y/N? is still a No. But I digest...Anyway, the Servitors are quite expensive now, and they start to fall apart when the techpriest dies, but not exactly a problem since they can't do much with him dead anyway. Blessings of the Omnissiah is pretty much the same as before, so not much has changed. Nice option if you are taking a tank heavy army.
See above. Very, very nice ability in the form of Righteous Fury, unfortunatly, doesn't work on Ogryns, which was the first thing I thought when I read it. Not much more that needs saying.
Platoon Command Squad
See Company Command Squad
And now were getting to it, the rank and file of the Imperial Guard, finally, Autocannons at 10 pts each and Flamers are finally, FINALLY 5 pts, instead of that annoying 6. Anyway, snipers are finally an options, and coupled with an autocannon can keep an ork mob away from your line for the entirety on the game. Rereading, I realise that thry can be joined by commissars, simply put, why? Take them and I will mentally beat you for the rest of my life. Voxs aren't bad options (Is voxs the right term?) and will help get those orders through.
Heavy Weapons Squad
Only ever take these if you have put heavy weapons in every infantry squad(of course exclude suiside squads- Otto's suiside squad, commit suiside!) But nice to stick behind your lines with mortars or on the flank as an expendable screen of fire.
Chimera Armoured Transport
Ah, the transport, so many people have suggested drive-bys from these things, but, I say thee nay. Just use them as quick transports, the armour is terrible and more than 2 turns facing a strength 9+ weapon is really pushing your luck. (Just a question, since heavy weapon teams count as 1 person firing, could you have them in chimeras and fire the heavy weapons+2 loaders firing their lasguns?)
Small points games only, big games demand you to swamp the enemy with either tanks or numbers, 'nuff said
Penal Legion Troopers
The...truly...pointless pieces of rubbish. Why GW? Only the Desperadoes ability makes them even marginally worth the rediculous points. However the Desperadoes ability does make it VERY hard for me to put them on my APV/RV charts, but I digest...
Crazy, brutal and totally crazy. T5, with 3 wounds and 3 attacks, they bane of assault troops, just make sure you smash the enemy up in the first turn otherwise the I2 will really hurt you, but hopefully the 5/- Assult 3 Ripper Guns with bash up the enemy a bit before you smash them further into the ground
*Crazy dance* Thank you so many times GW. Don't leave home without a squad. BS4 with sniper rifles will seriously smash up any elitest force, and will hopefully pin down any swarm army thats trying to race to your position.
Can't wait for the plastics(hopefully). However, they haven't changed that much since the last edition. Hunting lance now comes as standard, yey!. However, after the first charge, they aren't much to celebrate about and can easily be taken down in a prolonged combat or even by concentrated fire.
More rubbish from the offices of GW. Armoured sentinels are far too expensive, and should be swapped for either more troops or a heavy weapons squad. Scout sentinels should only be used in take+hold style missions, not very good in open combat.
Crazy good, crazy bad. Confused? I'll explain. Good points:AP3 hot-las ,Very good. Special Operations: Also very good, remember to pick the mission carefully.
Right, i'll continue this later, going to watch heroes, feel free to leave feedback and any questions you have.
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Thank you for sharing your experiences ^-^
But I have to disagree with a lot of what you say. Perhaps rather than a thoughtless "pointless-moving on" you could expand upon the thought a little. It would be far more valuable to know why you think such, and not simply that you do.
Random Tangent: You mean "I digress", and not "I digest".. which implies that you've just had a very large meal XP
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I'm working on a guide currently, but I'll just throw in ==My== take.
CCS: Hands down the best HQ. Lots of options and roles. They can use the Regimental Standard to keep your rabble in line, order around units, or just run as a souped up Vet squad. BS4 is awesome here. Don't bother with camo, medics, and carapace as it's all overpriced. Chimera FTW here. You can equip them for combat, but why?
Advisors: All good. Astro is a big help if you're outflanking (air cav anyone?) or holding any units in reserve. OotF is great for messing with enemy reserves. MoO looks neat on paper, but it's really inaccurate and not too useful on a more mobile army. Bodyguards are decent in a combat CCS, but why?
Commissar Lord: This is where the CCS's Commissar is. Ld bubble is nice, but he is an IC and ergo bad in combat. Too expensive for what little he offers.
Primaris: Not terribly effective, but very cheap. Lightning Arc is decent, if random, and Nightshroud combos well with Battle Psykers. The force weapon is interesting, but low stats don't help.
Straken: Beat stick, but needs an army built around him as IG generally suck in combat.
Creed: Really expensive, I could get another CCS and consequently more special weapons.
Kell: Neat ability, included Regimental Standard, but still expensive.
Nork: Are you kidding? Garbage.
Yarrick: Like a Commissar Lord, only harder to kill and more expensive. Love the fluff, not a fan of the rules.
Techpriests: Still overpriced and underperforming. Servitors got worse some how.
Platoon Command Squad: Lots of cheap special weapons, decent orders, Chimera. Good deal.
Infantry: Cheap and blasty, very good. Don't bother with power weapons and Commissars unless you want to try something fun or need a tarpit (see Ogryns).
HWS: Expensive, Ld7, easy to kill. I don't like these, unless you field a crap load and then you can just field more infantry.
SWS: PCS is superior, don't bother.
Conscripts: Infantry are only a small bit more expensive and worlds better.
Al'Rahem: Outflanking infantry platoons suck. Maybe if you load up on flamers and Chimeras, but that doesn't make up for missing a couple turns of shooting.
Chenkov: You don't want to sit in combat, you can to break and leave your enemy in the open. Conscripts get more expensive, yay!
Vets: Best Troops choice. Extremely flexible, cheap, 3 specials, and BS4. Go nuts with plasma and meltas, add heavy weapons, mount up in a cheap Chimera and go nuts. Doctrines are generally overpriced, but can be useful. Harker is great for an infiltrating objective grabbing unit (3 GLs and autocannon). Bastonne is neat if your CCS is camping at home, if a bit pricy.
Penal Troops: Cheap and random, a decent enough tarpit and sufficiently annoying and can be quite speedy. You get what you pay for, which isn't much.
Chimera: A-freakin-mazing. Huge price break, boosts order range, free weapons, and available to nearly everything. Multi-laser and heavy flamer here to slowly advance, threatening light vehicles and BBQ-ing anything that gets too close. Ride your Vets in and fire from the top hatch and relative safety.
Ogryns: Good tarpit, decent enough against non-dedicated assault units, but they're so damn expensive. They do not stack up with terminators at all.
Ratlings: Cheap snipers with stealth and infiltrate. Low Ld can be a problem, but at least they aren't shooting real threats. If they were Troops they would be awesome.
Battle Psykers: We have a winnah! Cheap, awesome powers, and excellent protection from their Chimera. Ld9 can be a hassle, but that's about it.
Storm Troopers: Overpriced and overhyped. AP3 lasguns mean jack squat to any mech army or hordes, and Vets are simply better when it comes to special weapons. Hooray for ultragrit. Stupid. I wish they were good.
More to follow.
I also disagree with several parts of it. Astropaths are invaluable. 30 points to pretty much gaurantee your outflankers and reserves arrive on time and go where you want them. Vets are so cheap and can take on any role you need them to, I include at least some of them in any size army. And outflanking scout sentinels with heavy flamers are one of the nastiest tarpits for the points!
I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ
Wasn't there something like this posted in the tactics forums? Also, Alex, i've got to disagree with a lot of what you have to say, here are some main points:
1) Rats were a lot better in the last dex and only a single point more, now once your opponent kills a quarter of the squad theyll most likely flee, and count as moving when they regroup as well as being out of position and cover.
2) Company and Platoon CMD squads fill very different rolls, first they each have different special characters which can easily change the way your army functions. Second they should not have meics unless you are taking a large squad with like 50 special characters, advisors, and other people attached to it. Third you have no mention of what orders they have or howw to best use them.
3) Vets you said small points games only and then failed to mention anything they can do well with, i'm sure that at least half of the IG players on this forum will disagree with you on that (=He= already has). Hell vets are my favorite unit in 1500 pts, a 115 point squad with a demolition charge, a sarg with lasistol ccw, 3 flamers, 6 lasguns, and all with frag grenades and melta bombs is a great unit.
Last edited by kevin vanrooyen; May 12th, 2009 at 01:06.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
Sorry, kinda tired last night and messed up on the vets, yeh they are quite good but, like I said, I don't really like them. That's my personal opinion. HOWEVER I will say that they are pretty dam good for their points cost and can dish out some serious hurt if played properly.
Slobulous I disagree a lot with what you say, astropaths really aren't worth thier points unless; A)You have a large regiment led by Al'Rahem(excuse me if I spell it wrong, haven't got the codex to hand) or You take loads of valks like ==Me== said.
Scout sentinels were rubbish in the old version, and they're rubbish now, 10 all round really isn't good, and most competant commanders will keep their troops away from the edges and you won't get much for the points you spend on them.
Kevin: I'm working on the orders and will probaly update it with them tonight
Also, that's why GW invented the Get back in the fight! order, simply put the ratlings near a commander and they won't break, even better if the commander's squad has some fire to back the ratlings up with.
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Sorry, but the OP is not helping any one with this post. A guide should actually explain the negatives rather than jab at GW.
As all posts they are opinion, and this thread needs to be re-titled "Experience and Opinion", as "Guide" will really misinform newer players.
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Indeed this seems like one of those millions of 'your doing it wrong' posts that are for the likes of the SM forums...and should definitely not be here.
The first rule of Guard is that despite any preconceived restrictions in unit functionality or ability, you can always build something tailored for the unexpected, especially now with many new options available for super-mobile guard, and even mobile assault guard.
The key to being a great IG player is to throw aside your first glance preconceptions and think outside the box, how units can interact and play off of each other, in short this is an army that requires good Generalship, not just basic 1-2-3-win instructions.
The orders system is now one of the largest assets of the IG army, and since almost all special characters get extra orders range, or access to specialized orders they are worth at least a good glance and a strong consideration not JUST for what THEY do, but for what they can get OTHERS to do by shouting at them.
Any decent guide or dex index should provide both pros and cons for each and every unit and give considerations for IG players that want a unique army other then Gunline 2.0 or Vroom-Vroom-Veterans.
In short this thread should be deleted until a suitable replacement is posted for open discussion and peer-review.
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Last edited by Stella Cadente; May 12th, 2009 at 14:50.
Stubborn, poor stats, and costs as much as half a unit. Pass.extra LD to pass Orders useless?........moving onI can get another unit instead.to be honest there kinda cheap when you look at them properlyStubborn hurts, it means your enemy can stay in combat and avoid your fire. Amusing in glob units, but hardly worth the price. I'd rather have more units.you can mentally beat all you want, but getting extra LD and helping 1 or 2 squads hold objectives is extremely usefulBingo.the loaders cannot fire, its 1 model with 2 wounds, models can only ever fire 1 weapon in most cases, this is one of themSome people like fluffy armies, some people like competitive armies, some people like both. Let's just nip the elitism in the bud here. Penal Troops aren't too bad, they're cheap, have some decent abilities, and can make a passable tarpit and objective grabber.because some people like fluffy armies, you know armies that actually have a meaningYes, let's make the AV10 open topped vehicle more expensive.that last part kinda sums up the idiocy in one go, if you really think sentinels are supposed to be used in open combat, then you really have no idea how this game woks, camo netting on either variant and an autocannon or lascannon or missile launcher produces a truly annoying unit able to pick off armour while remaining relatively safe in heavy coverI know I'm going to regret this, but would you care to elaborate?please don't, or at least read the codex and play at least 1 game of 40k before you make yourself look worse off, because you obviously have not