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I'm new to Imperial Guard and I am starting a Death Korps of Krieg army. I was wondering if you could help me out by answering a few questions:
Heavy Mortars and Quad-Launchers (Thudd Guns) are both listed as Elite choices for an Imperial Guard army as well as the Krieg Seige army. As the new IG Codex seems infinitely better than the DKoK Seige army list, I plan on using these as an Elite choice with the new IG Codex.
1) Do opponents have any problems with people incorporating Imperial Armour units into their armies, namely during tournaments (sanctioned and unsanctioned)?
2) For those in the know or with experience with these units, which do you generally prefer and why?
3) Since IA5 was written during 4th Edition of the BGB, some rules seem a little vague to me. One in particular is about the type of weapon the Heavy Mortar is. I think it is a Ordnance Barrage weapon with a 3" blast template. Is this correct?
Thanks in advance for any help! Cheers~! =)
Whether or not FW is allowed depends entirely on your local group. Go down to your shop and ask whoever usually runs the local tournaments if he will allow you to use those units. If not just keep them for friendly play. Most people don't mind in my experience, but I have come across several individuals with an irrational fear of forge world units. They insist that they are unbalanced and game breaking. This is the exception and not the rule though. I would suggest picking them up and running them in casual games, you most likely wont encounter any problems. Just be prepared to fill out your list without those units just in case your tournaments wont allow them.
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ForgeWorld rules are not allowed in any 'serious' tournaments like Adepticon, GW-GTs, etc. The models can of course count-as for models that have Codex rules.
In my reasonable experience it's fine for friendly games at the store as long as you don't show up with a Flyer or SuperHeavy for a game of regular 40K. I think the 'FW is broken you can't use it' attitude stems more from people who do things like show up with a Thunderhawk for a 1500pt game of regular 40K and expect to use it w/o even warning the other players
Thanks for the info!
Would anyone else like to enlighten me on the other two questions? I contacted Forgeworld rules enquiry, but I seriously doubt I'll get any response. At least, not anytime this year. =/
The rules for the Heavy Mortar read like they're Ordnance 1 Barrage, 3" blast, but the model used is the exact same gun as the Griffon Heavy Mortar which is Ordnance 1 Barrage, 5" blast. Of course I'm hoping for the 5" blast, but for its point cost, it seems scarcely possible.
Can anyone confirm my suspicions?
It's the ordnance 3" blast so it's the smaller blast template. Yes compared to the griffon it may seem unreasonable but consider that the griffon is in the new 5th edition codex, 5th edition where everything is cheaper and armies are much larger. The same reason why witch hunters, space wolves and daemonhunters pay 20 more points for a rhino with less equipment.
I've personally never used either gun though I'm partial to the look of the quad-launchers
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Apologies for interjecting as a noob, but I googled in on this thread and couldn’t leave Charlain Erebus misinformed in terms of what is a great unit for the Guard.
Upon consulting the relevant material, I’m positive that the heavy mortar uses the large 5" blast marker, at least for its default high explosive ammunition.
This is implied by the gun’s entry on page 115 of IAV5, where in the sub-entry for siege shells (one of the HM’s alternative ammunition types), the rules describes them using “the smaller [3"] blast template instead of the ordnance blast template” or roundabouts. Clearly the guys at Forgeworld envisioned the pie plate being used for the HM’s default high-explosive shells.
Secondly, this can be corroborated by the paragraph on ordnance weapons on page 58 of the 5th ed. Rulebook, where it states that “all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast template unless their stats state otherwise”. I can confirm that the weapon type of the HM in IAV5 is indeed “Ordnance 1/Blast”.
Hope that clears things up, I really hope you invest a battery – heavy mortars are incredible for the points cost and ideal if you don’t want self-propelled artillery in your army like me.
Honestly, I'm a fan of thudd guns more than the heavy mortar. 4 barrage templates means that multiple barrage rules take over, allowing you to aim them very effectively, and essentially, walk the shells right down a line of units. On the other hand, the heavy mortar gets those nifty smoke and infernus shells. They're about equal, the choice is mostly accuracy or power - Thudd guns are more accurate (especially if you have 2 or more), Heavy Mortars are more powerful. They're equally good at pinning infantry (and the mortars can force a fall back move).
Actually, listing all that and looking at the entries again, I'd have to say I now favor the Heavy Mortar. Wow.
But like everyone else said, as IA units you need opponent permission first, and tournaments most likely won't allow them. That said, most people probably won't have any problem with you using them as long as you ask.
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Until I rechecked that heavy mortars used the 5” template last night, I was leaning towards the Thudd Gun too, but I’ve reverted back to the former as I felt I needed pie-plate ordnance in my army as well as just heavy weapons inflicting the regular 3” blast radius. (Additionally, I’m assembling a WW1 themed army with carriage mounted missile launchers as “artillery” and want the same look with my heavier guns as well as avoiding the Basilisk/Griffon for fluff reasons.)
If you have the points to spare (+20 per gun), the infernus shell is a viable choice against horde or close-combat orientated armies which want to pile into your line at the first opportunity. In this way, the HM becomes a true “barrage” (barrier) weapon - keeping the moist threatening squads at bay (or at least slowing them down) by forcing fall-back moves every time they hit as you rightly stated. The HM and TG would probably best be used in conjunction with one another; the HM forcing a leading squad back to bunch up with a unit to its rear, whilst the TG then bombards the funk out of the tightly-packed troops where the effect of its smaller blast radius won’t be mitigated by troop spacing.
All this is mere tactical theory, of course. ;-)
Hey thanks for all the responses! I wrote an email to Forge World asking for clarification, but I'm sure you know how that goes. It'll be like 6th or 7th Edition by the time I get a response. Heh...
Thinking off Apocalypse, imagine the Heavy Mortars' Infernus Shells and Thudd Guns working in conjunction with a Banehammer's Earthshock special rule.
Macho Man Randy Savage comes to mind: "You ain't goin' NOWHERE!" lol
‘Whatcha ‘gonna do, when Krieg field artillery runs wild on you?” (Different wrestler, same sentiment.) :-)
In regards to Forgeworld, have you phoned the guys, or are you located in the colonies? If so, I'll try to drop them a quick line for you if I get the time.