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One of the biggest changes to my mind, in the IG codex, is the HQ section.
We are no longer restricted to having to take a command platoon, and only one of them either! Sure, command platoons no longer exist, but that's ok - you can take all those special squads in your normal infantry platoons.
But more than that, there's also a whole bunch of other options. Lord commissars, Primaris psykers. Special characters - Yarrick, Creed and Kell, Straken and Nork Deddog. Then there's the extras - Ministorum Priests and Techpriest Enginseers.
If I don't want to take a command squad, I can have my army led by a Psyker or a Commissar! If I want, I can take two commad squads! I could take Creed and Straken in the same army!
But then there's the stuff that got left out! I would've liked to see Macharius himself represented again in the rules, and some people really want Ol' Tanith boy Gaunt.
Admittedly, some options are also more viable than others. But that's what this thread is about. What HQ choices do you like, and why are they better than the others? Can you think of any good tricks or tactics you'd like to share?
I know there's already a Creed vs Straken thread going on at the moment, but that's cool - doesn't matter if some stuff gets repeated.
And if you've actually play tested a lot (or any) of these options, let us know how you went. I'm sure many of you have by now, but it's still early days for me (Don't get to play as many games at the moment) so I'm curious to find out!
Time to wax lyrical guys!
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
If you are looking for pure cost/effect, then a CCS is hard to beat. It's our cheapest option, and gives us 2 orders at 12" and 4 BS4 troopers, making them excellent melta/plasma platform. In addition, the Reg. Standard is a good deal if you're going to have an infantry firebase.
Creed or Straken are interesting options, each adding a different flavor. Creed is the "lead from the back" commander who excels at giving orders to your troops (and scouting a Banewolf is just evil), while Straken is the "punch them in the face" commander who makes your firebase much stronger in repelling CC attacks. However, imo, both are more "fun" options (although they are not too expensive as to make them bad choices, just not optimal imo).
Lord Commissar is the weakest HQ choice imo. His best usage is in the middle of a conscript platoon. However, for a similar price, you can just take 50 guardsmen blob with a commissar. In addition, unless you also take a CCS, you are missing out on our best orders (BiD! FomT! GBitF!).
Primaris Psyker is interesting. Personally, if I took him, I would stick him in a large infantry blob, so my opponent had to roll Leadership to shoot them. However, like the Lord Commissar, you will probably also want a CCS for the orders.
I like how CCS are no longer mandatory, but they are still a great value and give us a lot of bang for the bucks. In fact, they are soo good that taking 2 of them is not a bad idea
As for advisors. Nork is completely overpriced, too bad as it is a good idea. Perhaps if he was ~50 points. Astropath is great if you have multiple outflanking units, and Officer of the Fleet is good if your local metagame includes a good amount of DS armies (DropPod SM, Daemons, ect). Master of Ordnance is too inaccurate and personally my CCS is moving a lot, and bodyguards are a waste unless perhaps you are building a CC CCS for some odd reason (however they are cool ideas).
Priests are horribly overpriced. 45pts for a 1W T3 IC. Wish they would of made them somewhat good
TechPriests can be worth while in APOC games where you would have a LOT of tanks.
Last edited by BoxANT; May 31st, 2009 at 05:51.
My first impression:
Vanilla Command Squad- Hmmm...well you can't give your leadership around anymore and you get a whopping 2 orders that are limited to the recieving squad's leadership. As a support unit, my opinion was not high and remains at the same level. The only real strategic use is in messing with enemy reserves. On a tactical level however, lots of special weapon choices and high BS make these guys suprisingly useful and the moderate points make them highly disposable. In my opinion these guys will help you more doing drive by's with plasma and meltas or chilling in the back with snipers if you have an OoF, otherwise the orders are far too few and limited to have a major impact.
Yarrick- Wow this guys just looks annoying to fight in every respect. Re-rolling wounds, eternal warrior and a 3+ "I'm not really dead" save? Damn, few marines are this hard to bring down. The whole giving ld 10 and stubborn to everyone around screams conscript taskmaster. The big failing here is points, I'm not at all convinced he's worth it.
Creed & Kell- If you want to use orders he is most decidedly your man. The range and number of orders is impressive, but the points are a real turn-off. You have to think when you buy creed how many more points you're really paying as you'll likely be dumping points in things like commisars or voxs making his true cost far higher than the listed one if you want to get any real use out of him. The Free outflanking is kinky and has some possibilities, if I did take him, this would likely be the reason. If you're using orders heavily anyways, Creed is a must, otherwise, he's probably costing you more than you're getting. Of course you could always throw in Kell and have them do their "Wonder Twins Power Unite" thing, but it's hard to look at kell and say he's worth the points. Using ld 10 for the tests is good, don't get me wrong, but Kell is almost as much as Creed. Still depending on your army, Kell may be far cheaper than setting up a full vox network.
Straken- Where the hell did he come from? Almost a Grey Knight Statline on a guardsmen is too amusing to resist, but when you find out that all of his benefits for your army are melee based he starts to look very close to useless. That being said, he's a combo character. By himself, he's next to useless, but when combined with other units i.e. a massive combined squad with a commisar, he can have a strong impact on the game. I'd rate him about the same as Yarrick and Creed, if your army is using units or a strategy that will strongly benefit then go ahead, otherwise, the guy is just expensive.
Commisar Lord- I was really underimpressed here. The character is fairly bland and none of the abilities are really interesting. He has the plus side of having a ld bubble and giving stubborn, but at a higher price than a regular command squad almost seems to be fluff addition more than a useful character.
Primaris Psyker- About the same as the commisar lord here. I was expecting "wow" and got "wtf". Mildly useful psychic abilities that both pale in comparison to the PBS and is far less useful than a vanilla command.
Nork Deddog- Between Nork, Kell and Straken you can almost fool yourself into having a melee unit, but then you roll a single squad of Khorne Berzerkers charging and laugh at how ignorant that was. Overall a fun a fluffy character, but damn is this guy expensive for a bunch of abilities that you really don't want to have to use.
Ministorum Priests- Suprisingly I kinda like this guy. A real cheap 4+ invul save and chainfist that re-rolls hits, and lets his unit do likewise. The biggest problem he has is only a few attacks and not many good candidates in the book for him to attack to. If you can find some decent ablative wounds for him to pal around with, he has the potential to be very not bad.
Techpriests- Ill used in the previous edition and I'm seeing little or nothing in the description to make me think that'll change.
Overall assessment, unless you have a specific use in mind for Creed or Straken, you'd be better with a vanilla commander. Kell and Deddog are certainly interesting, but far too many points for melee models that you ideally never want to fight. The Commisar Lord and Primaris Psyker are fluffy, but offer few real benefits or enhanced usefulness. The Priest definitely has potential, but finding the right unit for him to attach to is the trick. In the end, I'm not sure IG has anything beardy enough to allow this guy's unit to beat a dedicated melee unit which is where the potential falls off because that's the type of unit you'll generally be fighting. The Techpriest will continue to collect dust just like he has.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
Command Squad: Two orders isn't enough in a 2000 point game;
Creed: I've used Creed and it's usually worth it for his extra orders and command radius.
Kell: Haven't used him.
Straken: I've played against him, and his weakness is his squishyness and initiative. Sly Marbo was charged by Straken and killed him before Straken could strike back.
Nork: Haven't used him.
Techpriest/Lord Commissar: Haven't tried, Lord Commissars could be good.
Primaris Psyker: He's good. Stick him in a mobile Veteran Squad with the Stealth/Defensive Grenades upgrade, and have fun. Ablative wounds and lots of high Ballistic Skill dakka is always good.
The CCS is only average in my estimation. The orders border on useless as they're short-ranged and depend on IG leadership, heavy weapon squads in particular. Master of the Fleet is a useful advisor as he seriously messes up all of those 'first strike' lists going around (the ones with 4+ deepstriking/outflanking units) and the standard is a poor-man's leadership bubble, but otherwise there's nothing to recommend the unit.
Either you like the special characters or you don't; none are indispensable or really game-changing.
I tried out the Primaris Psyker this weekend and he performed reasonably well. He did a good job of finishing off the stragglers left by my large blasts and bumped up leadership a notch wherever he went. He's mostly a one-trick pony but it's a very nice trick, and I didn't miss my CCS at all.
I like the Commissar Lord. My troops tend to fill defensive positions and so they really need the leadership he provides. I also like the image of a Commissar walking through the front lines, bolstering morale and shooting the deserters. Fluffy!
I'm debating the acquisition of a Techpriest as I have enough armor to justify his presence, but barring lucky shots my tanks tend to be fully functional until torn apart in CC. I think I'll just bring a couple penal legion squads to run interference for my Russes. Then again, the Techpriest could do that, too, and for almost the same price.
If the Priest didn't have IC status then he'd be worthwhile....or if he worked with Ogryns. Still, you're better off attaching this guy to a conscript squad than a Commissar.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Company Command Squad: I like what they did with the HQ. Although I used to play with a very aggressive HQ in 4th edition. I had a powerfist and storm bolter on my Heroic Senior Officer and he was amazing in close combat. But now that doctriens are removed and a lot of the fluff items for the officer are removed I really cant do it anymore. The HQ now has been forced back to give orders.
Lord Commissar: I actually found a use for him. I would attach him to an infantry squad and keep him near my heavy weapon squad of lascannons so that when orders are given to the HWS his ability will make sure that the orders are recieved and followed. I could also take another HQ and attach him to that so I can have double the orders and an aggressive HQ build.
Primaris Psyker: I never use any abhumans in my army because it is against my fluff. But I have played against another IG player that does play with a lot of abhuman units. The Primaris Psyker is one of them. I have to say that it is worth its points. And its a pain in the butt to get rid of.
Yarrick: He may be expensive but for what he can do I do consider him worth it.
Creed: Pure win! If you have the points to spare take him. He will surely boost the performance of your infantry.
Kell: another pure win. Being able to take the commanders LD is nice to have when giving orders. And its nice that now you have a choice to take him with or without Creed and vise versa.
Straken: A very aggressive and in your face HQ model. Although I do find fearless as a downside to taking him.
Nork: I will never use him as I said above I never use abhumans. For the points I dont like like him. I think as fluff he is good but apart from that I dont care much for him.
Priest: Expensive and really doesnt offer much to what the IG need. A good fluff piece though.
Techpriest: I hate Cogheads. I will never use them because of my fluff. With that aside I just been hearing that they somehow have gotten worse.
I have to admit that I am a big fan of Kell. My only reservation being that IG are so squishy I normally can't bring myself to spend very many points on them, I know they are going to get wasted in most games. By the time you have added an advisor your CCS is getting to be a very valuable target...
Psykers are tecknically mutants so yeah ab human.
I like all the HQ special characters thought some like Nork are too expensive as stated.
I am annoyed that everyone says the techpriest has got worse. He has actually got better in my mind. In the last addition of the rules he had to be in base to base with the tank at the start of the turn to be able to fix the tank, now he can move to the tank and fix it. Which is considerably better if he is near to a squadron of something that either is stationary or moves forward at 6" per turn.
I personnaly am running a ccp and have a commissar lord for fluff in my army. Just trying to balance the list to work fully.
I see the CCS as really the only competitive choice. You can poopoo orders all you want, I will continue to delight in firing three twin linked plasma guns at Carnifexes and making Chaos Space Marines reroll the cover saves they get against same. Astropaths and Officers of the Fleet can be game winning selections all on their own.
Lord Commissar, has a valuable role in some gimmicky builds, but you have to be using one of those builds to get any value out of him. He can be of value to an infantry heavy list as you can leave a dangler from many different squads inside his bubble and make sure orders stick. Nobody's really taking all infantry lists seriously now though, so essentially he buffs up a less competitive army build to be somewhat less-less competitive.
Primaris Psyker, I look at that stat line. I see I am forced to pay for a force weapon. I look again at the stat line, I see again I am forced to pay for a force weapon. I turn the page of the Codex and move on, wishing desperately that line had said 'Psychic Hood' instead of 'Force Weapon'.
It seems to be a universal rule with GW that the better the model is the crappier the rules are. So if I pass an LD9 check, and get by any hoods/runes of warding/etc across the table, I can take 2D6 shots. Or I could buy an entire additional squad of men. He's expensive for being good at killing things that IG armies are already good at killing.
And seriously, two wounds? SEVENTY points for a model with IG stats and they couldn't tack a third wound on there?
Techpriest, meh. I guess he'd be worthwhile if you had an artillery battery maybe. If he could clear off shaken/stunned he'd be awesome, but, he can't, oh well.
Priest, IC status? epic fail