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Big Shoota in the hands of an Ork Boy: 36 inches, 5+ to hit, 2+ to wound on normal Guardsman, 3 shots.
Sniper Rifle in the hands of a Veteran: 36 inches, 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound always, 1 shot.
I thought the purpose of the Sniper Rifle was to take out guys like that from a distance. I guess I was wrong. I mean, the Ork Boy needs 5's, but isn't it more likely to roll one five when rolling three dice than when rolling for 3+on one die? Seems like it. And when it hits, it's AP 5, auto killing if it wounds a normal guardsman not in cover. The sniper is 4+ wounds no matter what, but that's still 50/50 it will wound. And it's only AP 6. It strikes me that a sniper rifle's purpose is to take something down quickly and quietly. AP 6 seems low. And with two in a command squad, that's only two dice. Admittedly, they are Rending, but you still need to hit and get that six. They are pinning as well, but I still need that wound. Ratlings seem like a better choice for sniping, as there's more dice in it, but I still want my Commander protecter snipers to be able to do their job from a long distance and not have to worry about a machine gun (with the same range as a sniper rifle?).
"Our philosophy is beat it until it stops moving."
"And then shoot it."
"And then step on its nads!"-The Gamers 2
You want to wound MC's? Use plasmaguns and meltaguns. Maybe some lascannons.
You want to pin some stuff? Use mortars and ordnance weapons.
Snipers just don't really seem to cut it for me, in any situation there's always another tool that's better for the job.
But they can look pretty sweet though!!!
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
On the other hand, if a player uses things like mortars, indirects weapons, snipers, and other intraracial weapons such as warp spiders, genestealers and drop pods, basicaly all the things that have twists to them - you can expect that player to attempt to seize initiative and control the game, forcing you to play defensively.
When you take a sniper rifle you dont expect to actualy kill anything. The main purpose is the pinning that it causes. 1 sniper rifle, or one single mortar wont turn the game around for you - actualy on the other hand it will only hurt you. However, if you set the rest of your list AROUND weapons that focus on secodnary effects, you are bound to witness some great progress. Reason being, a 5 point sniper rifle will force a unit thats you fire at to test for pinning. Now if you have a company commander with 2 platoons, and each HQ has a sniper thats 3 units testing for pinning after being fired at by the sniper rifle.
Mortars have a similar role with the exception of the fact that they give you a good chance to seize the initiative of the game before it even starts. With the current barrage rules you have a good chance to pin multiple units in your enemy's deployment zone before they even get to move. You will obvious kill a couple in the process, but thats not the whole point of them - based on your opponent and his method of deployment, mortars in combination of snipers can proove to be lethal to forces races that value Ld value.
Mortar can pin certain squads in enemy deployment zone, those that dont get pinned wll move on toward you and once within the LOS of snipers you have a fair chance of pinning them as well. This lets you take the initiative and attack the squads close to you without intervention of the units pinned in the deployment zone. Once you are done with these, you are free to move into the deployment zone and eliminate the left over unit. This is why mobile AF squads, sentinels, fliers and hellhound variants are so popular among experienced players since these are typicaly the fastest and most hard hitting guard units that can make good pace across the board while firing left and right - making good timing into your enemy's deployment zone.
Perhaps one of the most good reason for such tactics is preventing your enemy from embarding on their transports. A pinned unit cant move shoot or assault so once pinned it cannot embard on the transport. On the other hand if the unit starts on a transport, mortars provide you a chance to down them without having to draw a LOS to them - which certainly wont be possible since they will obviously be deployed in cover
... I kinda got a carried away with all this pinning talk, anyway back ot the point ... sniper weapons have a very good role in a well setup army, but it take a lot of skill and experience to use them. This is the main reason why all the kids that can barely see over the counter use nothing but lascannons in their lists, while other more experienced players ofcus more on the pinning aspect of the guard which certainly got improved after the release of the new codex.
Last edited by WraithGuardian; June 10th, 2009 at 04:44.
My CCS is stationary in a support role and geared towards giving orders to my HWS, so I’ve given two of my veterans (it would have been three save for the medic) sniper rifles to give the squad a bit of ballistic reach. I mainly did this because a heavy weapon would have looked out of place/been unfluffy, but also because of the pinning ability, for which I also have two heavy mortars as well. At 5 points each, sniper rifles are a steal in my circumstances, and I’m really looking forward to converting my marksmen.
Also, Psyker Battle Squads can help a lot with pinning if you zap a unit's LD down before you hit them with pinning.
Space Marines: W15/L7/D3
Imperial Guard: W6/L4/D0
Ratlings were (and still are imo) our only real Sniper option. Yes you can take 4 snipers in your CCS, but there are many better uses for CCS imo.
As for Ratlings, they are not a bad choice, however they are completely inferior to PBS. Every point spent on Ratlings, is a point that should of went towards PBS.
If you are hell bent on causing pinning checks, then Griffions are your best bet. Griffion + PBS are a good combo, as they work on Marines
Ratlings are great. I try to infiltrate mine into ruins (up high at all possible with good line of sight), hopefully in an area away from the expected main area of fighting where they can take full advantage of their 36" range. The +1 cover save they get helps keep them alive. I use their sniper rifles to target high toughness things or things like devestator squads. I don't expect to kill a lot but they are a wonderful destraction. I get the occassional pin on a unit, kill a MC or help whittle down a unit before it hits my line. I have never had a game where my opponent has not sent a unit (more expensive than my ratlings) away from the main line of fighting to try to kill off my ratlings.
It is all of these things combined, not just the sniper rifles themselves, that make me love my ratlings.
Sniper rifles in vet squads and other squads don't excite me. I think there are much better options for those units than sniper rifles.
I don't buy into the whole sniper rifle/pinning idea. There's far too much that can go wrong with it, from playing against a fearless opponent to needing roughly forty-eight sniper rifle shots to cause a pin. (1/2 hit, 1/2 wound, 1/2 cover save, Leadership 9 test, give or take.) It's also the only special weapon that can't be used on the move. And if you theme your army around psykers, snipers and mortars then you aren't taking much antitank...and mech lists are very popular these days.
The only way sniper rifles would be worth it to me is if the attacker could allocate the wounds. Good models and fun rules, but why bother pinning your target when you could be killing them instead?
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
If you want to cause wounds for pinning go with mortars or artillary tanks. If you want to take out monsterous creatures, you`re guard! We have tons of high strength low AP weapons to kill MCs with.
If you`re one of those people who swear by ratlings, they aren't bad. I have a 10 "man"unit. However if yo like inning your opponent there's another elites choice you should look to; Psyker Battle Squads.
What's better, 2 chances to pin LD9 units or 1 chance to pin a LD 0 unit?
Snipers are there for 1 thing, fluff, until we get at least the equivilent of modern snipers i'll go with other weapons.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11