Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Having just picked up the 5th edition SM codex and Rulebook, I have been reading furiously the last few days.
My question today is about the army listings in the back of the Space Marine Codex. Specifically the entry for the Tactical Squad.
For the most part, everything makes sense. However, I was a bit confused about the wargear section.
The codex states that the Tactical Squad has the following wargear:
- Power Armor
- Bold Pistol
- Frag and Krak Grenades
In the explanation section, it says that the wargear entry "details the equipment the models in the squad entry carry."
Straight forward indeed, but I am unsure what this means when there are two weapons listed, as there are in the case of a tactical squad.
Do the Marines pick either a Pistol or a Boltgun, or do they have both? I assume they have one or the other, but the entry is a little confusing.
I am sorry for asking such a simple question, but I can't figure this out. Could someone explain how exactly to read the wargear entries?
Ah! I feel empowered to answer this as the fact that Tactical Marines now carry a bolt pistol is a pivitol part of my latest strategy!
When reading through the wargear list, like Tactical Marines, each model carries all of the wargear options unless stated otherwise (As in the case of the sergeants). This means you can use either your Boltguns or Bolt Pistols in the shooting phase. This allows you to charge in the assault phase since you can't shoot with rapid fire weapons then charge. Essentially they each have a sidearm they can use whenever.
They have both a boltgun and bolt pistol. The boltgun can be replaced with an upgrade in the case of a heavy weapon, but that model will always have the bolt pistol.
On the other hand, under the wargear section for other units, take the Command squad for example, it says boltgun or bolt pistol. In that case, you can have one or the other.
Last edited by Chirality; June 12th, 2009 at 01:29.
"Into the fires of battle, unto the anvil of war!"
-This space for rent-
Salamander project log
To add to the discussion further, there will be Options for a majority of the units in the Codex. If you decide to take an option, you must pay the price, and if it says replaces something, then the model in particular no longer has it.
Let's say we want a Chapter Master with two power swords. The Options says you replace his bolt pistol and/or chainsword as well. So, using imaginary points costs (never post actual options points in forums!), your Chapter Master will now cost:
Basic: 13 points
Power sword A: 4 points
Power sword B: 4 points
Total: 21 points
His wargear will now be:
Power sword x 2
Frag and krak grenades
This means that he now cannot shoot at all, as his bolt pistol was swapped out for a power sword.
P.S. One small note which is slightly off-topic. Bolter and boltgun actually mean the same thing. I was confused by this the first time I read my codex so I thought I'd share it with you
Thank you guys for the fast replies.
So it sounds as if models basically have everything listed under the wargear section unless specifically stated otherwise. In the case of our friends in the Tactical Squad, they have both a boltgun and a bolt pistol.
As Kenmichi mentioned, this means you can either use the Boltguns (rapid fire) or the bolt pistols in the shooting phase. Definitely a noteworthy difference given the rules for assaulting and rapid fire weapons. I take it there is no rule for swapping out weapons, you just declare you are using one or the other and shoot.
With regards to close combat, both the boltgun and the bolt pistol allow the marine to make one attack. However, they can't use both at once, so assuming the squad didn't make the assault move, each marine gets one CC attack. Is that correct? In the case of the sergeant, he could opt to replace his bolter with a chainsword and thus get three attacks in CC. Am I still on track here?
Again, thanks for the information.
Last edited by ColdSnap; June 12th, 2009 at 01:50. Reason: Spelling, Error with Sergeant Attacks
Yup, although I've heard tell of people trying to gain extra attacks for their Tactical Marines because the bolt pistol counts as a close combat weapon in assaults (i.e, a Marine has 1 Attack on his basic profile, which means he must have a close combat weapon, and so the pistol should count as an extra CCW and thus give him 2 Attacks, or 3 when charging). Seems bogus to me, but then again they're only Marines >_<With regards to close combat, both the boltgun and the bolt pistol allow the marine to make one attack. However, they can't use both at once, so assuming the squad didn't make the assault move, each marine gets one CC attack. Is that correct? In the case of the sergeant, he could opt to replace his bolter with a chainsword and thus get three attacks in CC. Am I still on track here?
The thing about the Sergeant is spot on.
Excellent. Glad I have things more or less sortted out.
As far as the attacks go for Marines, here's my understanding.
Pistols count as normal close combat weapons. So do bolters. However, a bolter, unlike a pistol, is not designated as a single handed weapon. It takes two hands to use in melee. In order to gain an extra attack for multiple weapons, a model must be using two one-handed weapons. Since the pistol is one-handed, but the bolter is not, a regular marine in a tactical squad cannot use both at the same time. Therefore, he only gets one base attack in CC.
I suppose he could be using either the bolter (with two hands and striking with the butt of the gun) or the pistol, but in both cases he can only attack once.
I sure hope I have this right. Page 42 (rulebook) has rules for fighting with two single-handed weapons and says that, "...if a model is using a two-handed close combat weapon (such as a rifle butt or a two-handed battle axe), it may not use it together with another weapon."
The way I look at it, it's even simpler than that. In order for the pistol to count as an extra close combat weapon, and thus grant a bonus attack in CC, the model needs to have a close combat weapon in the first place. Marines don't have a Close Combat Weapon listed in their wargear. All they have is the Bolt Pistol, which counts as one. Ergo, Marines have 1 Attack