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Do space marine armies work good that lean towards CC but arent bloodangels?
For big games i was thinking about maxing out on 6 ironclads and vanguard just to see how well they could do against a CC team like nids or orks.
Or is this just plain stupid and defo not the way to play space marines. Would look cool though 6 iron clads backed by vanguard charging head on into a massive army of orks.
Space Wolves are very assault heavy. IIRC, White Scars are as well.
Thats how I would like to play my space marines but the reality is that most of our specialized CC stuff is fairly expensive and most of it will get hacked to pieces by swarms and enemy models of their equivalence stats wise but are often cheaper (this applies to vanilla marines, dont know enough about blood angels or space wolves). Thats my thoughts on it anyway
Agreed. Space Wolves are another decent CC oriented army. White Scars is CC, as its very bike heavy.
Space Marines aren't swarm based. They are a tactical army. There is no unit:unit ratio you should be considering. Even fully decked out Vanguard Assault squad, can get dragged down by a full Ork Boyz Mob. They aren't meant to operate in isolation.
If numbers are your thing, you could consider the Black Templars or Dark Angles (I can't recall, atm), with their 20 man squads. They're still expensive, and you still won't be a swarm.
My army strategy is centered around some assaulting units, but when you're running with a non-specialized force (Vanilla; Ultramarines; DIY chapters) you have to understand that balance is key. You can center your strategy around assault marines, assault terminaters, or whatever you feel like but you need to support them. That's why I use devastators, many tac marines, a land raider, some dreadnoughts, and possibly the most important: 10 sternguards, I won't fight without them.
With Blood Angels you can get away without having balance because you can potentially run up to 6 or 9 assault squads, plus the Death Company. With such a large force centered around assault marines, who cares about balance when you're on top of your opponent after turn 2, the challenge is keeping your marines alive at turn 2.
While it is true that Space Marines are not really meant to be a predominant assault force, that doesn't mean they can't be. But it does require considerably more strategy than a standard shooty force (Not that shooty armies don't require strategy, just not as much). One misplaced deep strike or drop pod or assault can easily cost an assaulting army the battle.
But I think you should do it if you want to! My opinion would be to think simply and cheaply. Vanguards look nice on paper, but when you look at their numbers they really aren't worth it. They are a devastating force, this is difficult to deny. But it will be very difficult for them to earn their cost back because of how short they will live. They can accomplish the same goals as a terminator squad but last half the time. So really think about balancing your army, use plenty of tac marines, use some armored support. The duty of your tactical marines, other than objective taking, is to distract and hold off your opponent long enough to get your flanks on them.
Sternguards in a drop pod with deep striking assault marines behind them can get pretty nasty.
Thx for the info guys.
But whats orks and tyranids got thats gonna deal with 6 iron clads all with 2 heavy flamers? I mean surely if they get close they will wipe out everything.
In game terms you'd be looking at around 1500 points for the dreads and a tooled out jump pack vanguard squad. Two cheap troop choices and an HQ would round you out at 2000. A list like that is more of a novelty. It would either work really well or horribly depending on the opponent. I just don't see it as being much fun after a few games, especially to play against.
I would advise looking into Space Wolves and Black Templars, if you are trying to avoid Blood Angels. They are both CC oriented, but very different flavors. You're more likely to end up with something you like for the long term.
You may find yourself highly irritated when your dreadnoughts getting busted up by a single nob with a power klaw in a unit of 20+ ork boys. An Ironclad Dreadnought is pretty tough but a Carnifex is still capable of tearing one apart with ease.
Against two armies filled with units that have fleet of foot, you might find them getting to you before you can pull off a flamer shot. White Scars, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Space Wolves and Black Templar are all good choices for an assault army depending on how you field them.
Warhammer 40k: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, Grey Knights, Space Lizards (wolves), Kroot, Witch Hunters, Dark Eldar
Warhammer: Lizardmen, Empire, Vampire Counts, Brettonians, High Elves, Skaven
Raven guard with Shrike = great assaulty space marine army.
Played a guy who ran this a couple of days ago and having practically his entire army fleeting is definately not fun.