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I've been away from the hobby for a very, very long time. Life has been extremely chaotic. So chaotic in fact, that im taking up the hobby again for the some piece of mind and solace. I'm a good painter and modeler and I enjoy the painting/modeling/fluff aspects to the game.
Anyways, last year I started an Imperial Guard army that was going to be an elite urban warfare division, it was going to be suited for close quarters fighting (flamers/meltas/pistols), which IG rarely is good at, but I felt with enough Chimera's zipping my troops around, it could be done in combination with Light Infantry doctrines and all that.
Anyway, now I'm thinking an entire mechanized division would be great; not so much mechanized with lots of firepower and tanks, but more like .. mechanized infantry. All infantry squads with a few exceptions would be inside a Valkyrie or a Chimera. I'd have 3 Chimeras for an entire platoon - the HQ squad and the two obligatory platoon squads. I'd also have an Armored Fist or Veterans squad tricked for close fighting in a 4th Chimera. There'd be a pair of Sentinels and a Leman Russ Variant.
If I went speed freak orks however, I'd have a pair of trucks filled to the max with Orks best for close fighting, one going up each side of the board perhaps. There'd be an obligitory biker squad with the leader of the army in it. Then I'd grab a big ole' squad of flying stormboyz as well as a pair of Ork Coptaz, a few war buggies, war trucks, and a scorcher.
Regardless of which army I'd pick the tactics would be similar: Rush the enemy side of the board if you know you can handle a fight in close quarters with them, but do not rush them if they will make lunchmeat out of you such as .. Khorne Chaos.. Deathwing, Terminator Heavy Marines, Space Wolf Marines, Tyranids, etc. When facing tough opponents like the ones I just listed, I'd opt for a more maneuverable plan B strategy consisting of flanking, encircling, keeping out of range, seizing objectives and the best cover to fight from. In either army, the tools would be there .. speed, maneuverability, and a suitable amount of firepower ... most of it with 24" range or less, but I will be all over the board, close up, I don't want to sit back and shoot all day.
promise me this.... you have to take A HEAVY WEAPON!
Use the leman russ lumbering behemoth ability for super mobility!
If ya use a leman russ then find good ones with nice supportive effects
To make full use of your infantry choose the right special characters!
Also remember you have numbers!
Both armies are very good on the move, IG are just shootier, blastier, and less capable in assault.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
Given the tactics you prefer, the Imperial Guard is not a good choice for you. With our latest Codex, it is possible to do a high-speed, CQB style army but we will never be good at it. Orks, Eldar, Chaos, Tyranids, and Sisters of Battle are all better at that tactic than Guard ever will be. Guard stock-in-trade is heavy tanks and attrition; they lack the body armor and leadership for close-range firefights, they don't have the CC ability to followup their shooting with a charge and most good Guard weapons are heavy and can't be used on the move. Even IG ordnance is limited by mobility tactics since artillery must be stationary to fire indirect and your men will be hit by deviating pie plates. You can force the Codex into that mould but it isn't going to be a natural fit...I say go with Orks.I will be all over the board, close up, I don't want to sit back and shoot all day.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
If you want to do a close-combat guard army. Mechanized is good, but one thing that people often overlook also is outflanking. Imagine this:
Infantry Platoon w/Chenkov. Outflank an entire 50-man platoon on a 3+ 2nd turn with re-rolls to see which side they come from. Also, give the unit a commisar. Or you can put each outflanking squad in a chimera.
Also, get some veterans in chimeras for some 3x melta or 3x flamer/1x heavy flamer drive-by shooting. And if you really want to screw with your opponent, give your vets meltabombs/demo charges.
Finally the ultimate close-combat squads include 3x valks/vends, Straken, and, ironically, 2x squads of Grey Knights! You'll be in cc on turn 1 with some furiously charging grey knights.
Orks vehicles are Open-topped and they get Waaagh. They are built for getting stuck in fast. If you want Mech-Assault, go Orks.
Guard and outflanking trickery just means you come in sideways later in the game, it really isn't as powerful as folks want it to be.
RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
I've been addicted to World of Tanks lately and neglecting my IG... But it is so... much... fun!
1) Al'Rahem outflanks, not Chenkov
2) The Heavy Flamer in Veteran squads is not in its own separate category like in a Command Squad, it counts towards the 3-special weapon limit in the squad. However, you can take a Heavy Flamer on the Chimera.
@The OP: Like other people have said, Guard uses mech infantry to add mobility to an otherwise static list and to take objectives, Orks use mech to close into assault range fasta.
Space Marines: W15/L7/D3
Imperial Guard: W6/L4/D0
well .. I do have to consider financial cost of the items, and how long they'll take me to paint, ie; painting difficulty. really ... i have to make sure i can make the models look good. orks are such that you can get away with a sloppy paintjob, but when they're done just right, they look excellent. i'd be concerned I could hit that level on orks because I've never painted orks before, just pale skinned stuff, humans .. elves .. etc.
i also need to check the new IG codex. the old IG codex left room for this to be a workable idea with the addition of doctrines, specific doctrines, and special equipment from that section. you could bring troops with WS4 who had upgraded morale, and could do some other neat stuff.
the idea never was a melee IG army. sure, there'd be a fair amount of melee taking place, but the idea would be up close and shooty / blasty. using assault category weapons much, much more so than heavy category weapons. stuff that can move and fire while being deadly up close. the ork approach would be more like a generalized bum rush, just get to the enemy and get stuck in as best as possibly everywhere possible. sure, the addition of mobility would make it fun and different, but would also make it less numerous of an army, because all those vehicles add up in points cost, especially after characters and wargear for everything. I'd almost say that the ork army would be cheaper financally!!
another thing, im familiar with IG history, with how they work, with the stats and functions of all their troop types and equipment. Orks are like a whole new can of worms for me, I know jack-squat about them .. I couldnt even tell you a standard ork's stats, much less the difference between a nob and a warboss. But i could learn quick :-)
come to think of it .. the orks might be the better way to go. But they are a one-trick pony. They only have 1 predictable tactic. The guard could be used much, much more flexible, and perform better against a wider range of army types.
but that type of IG army would be so much different; a lighter IG army .. more maneuverable, quicker than normal, different tactics than normal, with tons of assault weapons, and some well placed heavy weapons. also, the use of uncommon items like the Hellhound and the Griffon Tanks, which I'd be using one of each.
I'm still undecided! Argh .. okay .. a command HQ on foot. Then .. platoon #1 , entirely mechanized, no heavy weapons. Even junior HQ would have their own Chimera (so 3 chimeras for 25 men). Platoon #2 .. entirely on foot, with heavy weapons. Then, I'd bring a Veterans squad in a 4th Chimera (or a Valkyrie -- unfamiliar with their rules, but would like to get one in the army). For fast attack .. a Hellhound and 2 Sentinels with armor busting weapons. And for support .. the Griffon heavy-mortar tank, which Id be making after some simple modifications. That would be the army .. it would have 6 to 7 vehicles and only 65-70 men on the ground.
Ironicly, the Ork speed freak army would have around the same amount of boyz on the ground. I'd hve two trucks filled to the brim with boyz, two small squads of bikers (4 in each squad, one with a nob, one with the warboss), a squad of 3 war buggies, and a pair of 2 deff coptas. That might leave me with enough points to pick up a massive squad of stormboyz, but that'd be about it.
I'm SO undecided even still. :-) I guess with the way I'm talking, I'd want to start with a 1,500pt force and expand it to 2,000pts right away, so that I could have options @ 2,000pts, or field everything I own @ 2,500pts.
Last edited by rune; June 17th, 2009 at 00:11.
update: got a look at the new IG codex, thoughts..
I'm definitely sticking with the guard! The new codex makes them that much better. It seems like they did all the right small things to make the list more flexible and easier to field while allowing for more variety and all the new vehicles are great.
How it applies to my force: Well, the most obvious thing is that I dont *have* to take a 25 man platoon as a troop choice at all if I dont want to, I could field exclusively veteran squads as my troops choices. But I think the best thing would be to field one platoon and one veteran squad to satisfy the two troop choices.
I'd make the HQ command squad as beefy as possible for assault, I know they are not made for assaulting but, perhaps with a commissar in there and 4 veterans it would work. I'd stick them in Vendetta/Valkyrie #1. Vendetta/Valkyrie #2 would have a full veteran squad with melta guns and the like in it. The 25(26 w/a commissar) man platoon could split themselves into 3 seperate Chimeras. I could always add a 3rd guard squad into a 4th Chimera. This would give me the target of 5-6 transports that I am looking for. I'll also be fielding the upgraded Hellhound, forget its' name .. with the powerful gun on it. A pair of lascannon sentinels andddd ... a Griffon tank. As you can see, at the most I'd be looking at 60ish men on the board, but I'd have ALOT of vehicles for that size of game. I'd be aiming for 1,500 to 2,000pts.
With this army, I dont HAVE to rush the enemy. I could deploy outside of the transports entirely on foot, or partially on foot, etc. I could put just my vets in transports, for example. I could use the other empty Chimeras for other purposes, to slow up the advancing horde. And against another maneuverable army like Tau or Eldar/Dark Eldar, this would be great fun.
I'm already thinking of a Company name .. The Ghost Riders, Veteran Mechanized Infantry!