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Been consistently beating/drawing with my opponents with the new dex.
I haven't played against IG more than once, but I find the current dex gives us so many options that makes us extremely hard to beat.
So if you have to change sides with your opponent, what would you say are IG's weaknesses?
"Hard pounding, gentlemen: but we shall see who can pound the longest."
Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington
Outflankers, if your opponent brings large fast outflanking units (5+ man scout bike squad) he can multi chare us killing a tank with a power fist or similar and using the reso of his guys to hit the tank so that combat res stays even and he spends the IG turn locked in combat. Then after killing some guard they'd flee in the IG assault phase leaving marine player free to do this again.
SW scouts and Snikrott do the same thing only coming on from our board edge, so they are wise purchases.
Drop pods, even empty ones could be dropped down in front of the guard lines with deathwind missile launchers lobbing 5" templates around the guard lines while blocking LOS or providing cover to most of the marine army. Full ones with melta weapons to hit tanks are just nasty.
Other armies can rely on things like monoliths or land raiders, the primary guard AT weapon is a meltagun, even moreso than the lascannon. Either one of themhas trouble with AV14 (the meltagun doesn't even get the melta rule against monoliths).
Take cover ignoring weapons, there is only so much cover on a board and guard armies wil often bunch up behind cover making somthing like a thunderfire cannon very useul indeed.
Close in quickly, guard are still squishy little men who can't really fight in CC. Very few players use allies like grey knights, fewer still use rough riders and ogryns. Close Combat is still a leginimate strategy, now you just need to multi charge to make up for no more consolidation into CC.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
I love this thing against Guard at my FLGS. If you present bigger targets (Like a Vindicator n 2 Land Raiders) then the guard player will often overlook that in place of the above mentioned vehicles. Meanwhile this is sitting 60" away out of range of all of the Guard infantry-weapons pounding at them, either directly (Normal) or through cover (Cover-ignoring, Armor save they'll get is worse than the cover they'd get). And if the cannon gets destroyed you now have a spiffy new Techmarine to fix things.
Space Marines: W15/L7/D3
Imperial Guard: W6/L4/D0
Guard has a lot of possibilities that's for sure and plenty of scary looking tactics. I'd say people will need a bit of time to adjust to these new 'tricks'
I went up against my friend's new guard list last weekend and was shocked at how many dudes he was able to put down at 1000 points. I played Blood Angels. I used the standard rhino rush and jump pack army thing and charged lines of guardsmen outnumbered 3 to 1 most of the time for each combat. Well I never lost a close combat. I don't have that much experience vs guard but damn they were squishy.
Whirlwind was guard public enemy number 1. So many kills with that thing ignoring cover.
My tactics was pretty much to keep myself locked in close combat and ignore tanks and such. I won the match because he had no scoring units left. Spent hours cleaning guard bits out my chain swords hehe.
tell your friend that rhino's with close combaty space marines in should not be allowed to reach his line.
Also it sounds like he needs to get some vets with plasma guns, 6 plasma shots at 12" range would hurt spacemarines alot, or he could just get chimera's and run round you when you dismounted.
From a basis of what would beat guard though your right in that they definately do not do assault. Possibly the only army we stand a chance in assault against is tau.
and on the 8th day god made a talking poodle and forgot all about us
The rep button is good
Hehe smoke launchers on rhinos on the way in. He did throw a lot of dakka in their direction.
Clarification: Tacs in Rhinos. Assault marines behind the rhinos using cover with jump packs. He tried to kill as many as possible before they got into range but cover from Rhino's + Corbulo's exsanguinator saved them.
To be honest I don't think the dice were in his favor that game. Losing only 1 marine after having 50 + shots fired at them made my confidence rise a bit.
I just knew in my case I had to get close as quickly as possible or he was going to out shoot me with volume for sure. Back to my first point above. Use smoke launchers to close that distance!
I have trouble with plague marines and khorne berzerkers at low points levels. The plague marines are just so hard to kill, even though I fought them foot slogging and had a demolisher they still reached my lines as my demolisher was killing his termies. The berzerker list had 2 rhinos full and a land raider with abbaddon who all rushed forward, popped smoked, and was in assault by 2nd turn. I only managed to immobilze one rhino (with a exterminator and 3 autocannons and a vendetta trying) but the game did end very cloes with 5 KP to 6 KP (ended on turn 5 I had a vendetta and leman russ, he had a immoblized rhino and land raider, prob would have one if it kept going)
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
So did I. Well untill the Bane hound came out anyway. Both these armies require getting up close and personal with you so something like the banehound really causes them some grief. Killing Crome Bazeraks on 2+ no cover and Plague marines only get their FNP.
If my Mechanised marines were going against guard it would be Whirlwinds and Predetor Destructors all the way. 85pts per tank? Guard think they get their stuff cheap! Otherwise powerfists and flamers and termies with Thunderhammers&Shields. Everything is mounted in Razorbacks or the Landraider. Also the Librairian can cause some annoyance to PBS and with the Str5 Flamer Power he'll be burning through squads on his own.
My Pod Marines are all kitted out wit melta/flamer in the squads and combi weapons too. I've got Command squads as Assault Devestator squads with 4 special weapons. 4 Melta guns or 4 Flamers should be able to cause some hurt to anything they go near. MultiMelta and heavy flamer Dreads aswell. I'd not like to have that come down on me being a guard player.
Last edited by Lord Borak; June 15th, 2009 at 09:09.
I beat 2 IG armies with ==My== Orks at Saturday's tourney. 1 army was a bunch of mobbed up infantry backed by 3 Russes with 2 Chimelta squads, the other was 5 Russes with a bunch of Vets behind them.
I ran ==My== mech Orks (2 BW, 3 Trukks, Lootas, Grots, Looted Wagon, Deff Kopta) and steamrolled both of them.
The first list couldn't hurt ==My== vehicles thanks to the KFF and him using a single lascannon HWS and normal Russes with lascannons in the hull. Lootas took out the HWS and Chimeras, and the boyz loved tearing apart 30 guardsmen per combat.
The second list had the Vets deploy behind a wall of Russes. 1 Squadron of 2 LRBTs and 1 Demolisher, 1 Eradicator, and 1 Vanquisher, all with lascannon in the hull and heavy bolter sponsons. I lost 1 Trukk on the way in because his squadron had to fire at the same target (shoot the Demolisher and the Battle Cannons at the AV14 vehicle, brilliant!). So, the Warboss hops out, charges the Demolisher and destroys all 3 tanks in one round (squadron rules are DUMB!!!), a Trukk mob destroys the Eradicator, and it all went downhill from there. He had a Vendetta and a handful of Vets left at the end.
Lessons for IG players:
-Lascannons on your Russes are BAD. BS3 is bad, lascannons don't kill vehicles reliably any more, and they don't complement the Battle Cannon at all.
-Squadrons are bad. A 100 point Warboss should not be able to destroy 400 points of Russ in 1 combat. Also, being forced to fire at the same target means your Battle Cannons are wasted against AV14
-Bring meltas. Plasma is cute, but it doesn't hurt vehicles or insta-kill Meganobs.
-HEAVY FLAMER HULL MOUNT. Seriously, if ==My== second opponent had them I would have lost. Fast armies will close, so you need to be able to see them off. A lascannon isn't doing anything.
-Valks/Vends are awesome. Use them.
IG look good on paper, but very beatable (especially if they bring crappy lists and play like noobs).
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com