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No way, get your grimy hands off my wargear.
Alright, as long as its reasonable.
Sure, go nuts.
I have emerged once again to put forth an important question. What is your view on mixing the stats, units and points costs in between codexes. Eg. TH/SS provide a 3++ for units from Codex: DA,SW,BA and BT.
I for one would not mind this being done, to a certain extent. I wouldnt allow an opponent to do unreasonable things such as using the points cost for bikes from Codex: SM while still gaining the benefits from Ravenwing bikers (fearless and scouts).
What I dont mind is silly rule misalignments such as whirlwind ammo types being able to be changed mid-game with the SM codex and not with the other chapter specific codexes. Things like these do not have a major impact in the game and are just irritating, so getting rid of these is a good thing IMO.
I for one would like the rules and points cost for SM drop pods in my Dark Angels army. Paying 15 points extra for a drop pod without a deathwind launcher and without drop-pod assault is too much.
Let me know what you think,
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there is a long long list of problems between codecies, storm shields, pods and whirlwinds are just some of these problems.
I could rant about the fluffy side to codex chapters getting different/better equipment than other chapters, but the end result is these codices are balanced. Yes, one codex may pay more for a worse storm shield, but their use in that army is balanced by their cost.
I'm starting a Deathwing style first company, and I have agreed with my regular gaming friends that I can put Belial and Deathwing Terminators from C:DA into C:SM. This simple insertion means that all wargear/tanks etc are standardized (Cyclone Missile Launchers are C:SM spec and points cost). It also means I can use the C:SM techmarine who is an IC, as opposed to the C:DA one who for some strange reason is not an IC.
We don't see any reason why wargear should not be standardized, to the point where SoB rhinos get 'repair', just like all the other rhinos in the galaxy. Any reasonable opponent should allow you to use the updated wargear as long as you pay the proper points for it.
I would not be happy with this. You either play one codex, or the other - not the best of both world. You wouldn't be happy if I insisted you use the worst of both would you? So why should your opponent let you use whichever price you wanted?
Some chapters have less of a certain vehicle, or have their own upgrades, and this is represented by the codex. You don't get to mix and match.
1 codex is all you get, the non vanilla codex of SM all have special bonuses and negatives. To mix and match with the normal SM codex generally removes several of the negatives or strengthens the positive. In other words take the good with the bad.
There is something just not right about wargear that works differently, but forgetting that for the moment though, this comes down to one thing: if your opponent is happy for you to use updated wargear then that is fine (I believe that is what the FAQ says). The issue is not about which is right the way to do it, the issue is about whether two reasonable people can come to a comprimise in order to play a game they both enjoy. If you turned round and said that the way I used the codices was unacceptable then I wouldn't play you - simple as that.
I asked my mates if we could rule this particular way so that I could make a Deathwing style list that was slightly different to all the other deathwing's out there, of which most come down to 25 Termies with assault cannons and some vindicators. I will be running 2LRs, 3 squads, belial and a techmarine. I could not make this list work with C:DA.
Conclusion: I have fun, my mates have fun <---point of 40k.
There's a line to be drawn, in my opinion. Allowing a Black Templars/ Dark Angels player's Power of the Machine Spirit to function in the same way as it does in C: SM, that's fine. Allowing a player using C: SM to take Blood Claws, not so good. The Codexes might share some common traits, but at the end of the day they're still seperate Codexes. You might as well let Eldar players take Wyches, or Daemons players to throw a couple of Obliterators into their lists.
Of course, that's all assuming it's at least a semi-competetive environment. If it's not then who really cares, as long as everyone has a laugh? The last game I played in our doubles campaign featured a unit of Plague Marines riding around in a Wave Serpent (which, by the way, is by far the beardiest combination in all of 40K)
And here I thought the beardiest would be TH/SS termies with a farseer casting fortune, nothing like rerolling 2+ or emperor forbid a rerolling 3+. Perhaps a farseer casting fortune on a unit of biker nobs would also count, give the farseer a bike and he could even keep up.
Put it this way; we had a Land Raider, two Medusas and a Devil Dog Hellhound. It took us three turns just to immobilise the Wave Serpent, and by the time the Plague Marines were out of it all our insta-kill weapons were too busy trying to kill the Avatar and Daemon Prince that were chopping up my partner's Guardsmen to bother with the Smellbags. Eldar and CSMs are a match made in heaven >_<
I don't like the sound of Fortune'd Nob Bikerz thing though; Biker 'Locks with Fortune are bad enough.
I whole heartedly agree with some of you on the mixing units part. I mean its not fluffy for Dark Angels to have Sternguard as their 1st company is all terminators. Or a Farseer in a Space Marine army. THis is just unreasonable and isnt/shouldnt be allowed.
What is fine is the levelling of wargear and points costs. I am sure that the developers did not intend for the BT,DA,SW and BA machine spirit to be dumber than the Codex: SM machine spirit. Also i'm sure that non-codex chapters would get the new upgraded versions of wargear if there were any. The emperor would not keep them only for the Codex: SM chapters.
Minor rules discrepincies like these should be abolished for the sake of consistency.
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