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First of all, I apologize for jacking Cadaver Junkie's "Topic of the Week" idea. I noticed the last one was started on June 5th and since it's been such a successful idea I wanted to emulate that in another thread.
Commissars have always been one of my favorite units and perhaps among the fluffiest of Imperial Guard units. Who doesn't enjoy the old It's For Your Own Good! and Summary Execution? Unfortunately, it seems as though, at least in most respects, Commissars have gotten worse from 3rd to 4th to 5th edition. So, to start up the conversation, I have a series of questions that people can look at and answer:
Are Commissars playable in competitive lists?
How many Commissars per list (per point range) do people use?
What are some of the best strategies and tactics to use Commissars with?
And finally, how come Commissars in Infantry Squads cannot obtain Power Fists? Is there something I'm not seeing here? What about in Conscript squads?
I suppose we can include Lord Commissars in this discussion too
the only reason i can now see taking commissars is if u are taking only 1 and putting him in a combined squad of 30 guardsmen, this makes for a great speed bump, plus if u give him a power sword it will take awhile for the enemy to chew through the rest of the unit, and being stubborn w/ a reroll will almost ensure this unit fights to the death. u could tie up an enemy unit for most of the game with these guys.
this is the reasoning i suppose they made it so u couldn't take power fist on commissars, as it would be so well hidden in the unit making them very hard to take out, as the sq. is close to unbreakable while in combat.
lord commissars = waste of points in my opinion, as the IC status puts a bulleyes on them, and he is only avg. toughness
Commissars work well in COMBINED SQUADS. . . 1 Commissar in a squad of 10 guys is not worth the POINT COSTS which is half a Veteran Squad.
Commissars work well in a Close Combat Orientated Squad:
-Serge with Force Weapon
-Commissar with Force Weapon
I don't think Commissars are THAT competitive. Hell, they can have their uses (ie, with Ogyrns if god-forbid, anyone USES ogryns competitively
Simply put, the point cost.
I didnt play IG4E, but i think they lowered the point cost, but not enough to make a huge difference. Just like Voxes, they're really not needed.
What happened to me: (love it! -- Commissar playtest one)
Infantry Squad w/ Melta moves up, gets shot at, loses 4 guys. Leadership test. Sarge dies.
Infantry Squad w/ Melta moves up, almost gets in range of tank, gets show at, loses everyone but Commissar and Melta. Leadership test, Melta dies.
Commissar dies next turn.
Good job Commie
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Lord Commissar's useful in a list that needs a REALLY CHEAP HQ.
Even so, there are better options: (cough Primaris Psyker cough)
That's my 2 cents:
Hope i was helpful
Commissars, so cool and yet so hard to justify taking one!
Back in 3rd Edition I had 3 of the buggers and loved them.
Didn't play Guard in 4th Edition but rarely saw a reason to bring a commissar looking at the codex.
5th Edition sees them as Infantry blob babysitters. 30 stubborn guardsmen with a reroll for failed test will hold an objective for a few turns
I will have a mostly infantry force for the forseeable future so I will experiment first with Chekov (for Stubborn) and eventually with some Commissars.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
I agree with the consensus here: commissars as large combined squads babysitters. Stubborn, higher ld (which makes passing order checks easier too!), a power weapon. If you give some meltas or flamers to the squad, and power weapons to sergeants, you'll have a fairly decent CC squad. Poor vs. enemy with high A numbers such as orks or even hormagaunts, but good vs. elite troops such as regular SM (not chaos, too many A).
"Politics is the womb in which war develops"
I was actually playing a game the other day where a had a 20-man infantry blob get assaulted by a Daemon Prince who already had 2 wounds. Somewhat surprisingly, within 2 turns the blob had struck back and killed the MC. Granted, I was a little lucky because I lost combat both rounds but I passed both Leadership rolls without a Commissar, but I could see how having the Commissar there to ensure the troops don't falter would be quite beneficial. This strategy would indeed be quite terrible against Orks or CC units with a lot of attacks, but I play against SpaM most of the time, in which case I outnumber the opponent by a fair amount (if I have a Combined Squad) I think the whole blob with Commissar on an objective would be pretty good unless the squad was tank shocked or attacked by those sorts of CC units.
Commisars and the amoeba rule have more uses than simply running into close combat with a high body count. Suppose you take a platoon of one command squad and two infantry squads with missile launchers, one of which has a Commissar, and amoeba-up the infantry? For two KPs you have a firebase that never runs from shooting, will reliably follow any order they're given and will have a hidden powerfist if/when close combat happens. That's not a bad deal for 200 points or so.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
2 Infantry squads + 1 commissar (power weapons for sarges and commissar, 2x grenade launchers and 2x autocannons) has the same point value as 10 tactical marines (with free special/heavy weapons and a powerfist on sarge). And whoever charge is likely to win the fight (over ~4 phases of bashing).
Just make sure you charge first. And Pilling on more bodies will just ensure your victory. That and there will be sufficient numbers of guardsmen to make the FRF!SRF! deadlyish.
But yeah, Commissars need 20+ bodies to start being worth the points (as saving a 10 men squad from routing is... not cost efficient) or to become efficient hidden power weapons.
Commissars are thus rather useless in lists where every squads are mounted in Chimeras, but rather usefull if only as a mean of holding the line one more turn for Lines Squads. Commissars in Infantry squads can't get fists anymore, probably to avoid the powerfist hidden in 20/30 guards, platoon HQ's one can still get them tho. And so can the Platoon Commander....
Commissar Lords are mostly useful for Leadership bubble which allow them to mostly do a regular commissar's job for the whole platoon (assuming Platoon command squad being joined by the lord being used as counter charge and 2 20s squads being used as line squads). Not exactly effective, but hey at least they look cool.
As for conscripts.... heh to quote someone "You're Better Off With Grots!" or with normal squads, really. Hopnestly i think conscripts only possible use is as shield for the true soldiers, but that's still not an effective use of points, barebones squads will cost barely more and will at least be able to hit a baneblade's broad side.
There is also the fact i start laughting whenever i imagine summary executions... Yes yes i know i'm a mental case.
Doesnt Cadever Junkie do this?
Well, anyways thanks for posting a topic of the week cause the IG threads have been boring for me for a while.
Commissars eh? Well, my opinion of them is if you have trouble with LD rolls and such take them but dont stick one in every squad because that gets expensive. Combining squads is usually a good idea when using Commissars. Commissars are also good for lists that use large numbers of infantry platoons. I would say if your running about 60 to 80+ guardsmen just with infantry squads then you might want to consider Commissars. Its pretty much what people are saying already.
Now I wont right now but are Lord Commissars fall under this topic that we are talking about or is it strictly regular Commissars?
Pretty much as above. Good for blobs, not much else.
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