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Command Maxed, Platoon Min'ed
Command Min'ed, Platoon Maxed
Heavy / Special Weapons Squads
Hi folks (never know how to start these things),
I've been re-equipping my guard to fit into the new Codex, and I am a bit stumped on what to do with my Command Squads - both the Company and Platoon ones.
I have checked with a search and I couldn't find any other threads on this topic (at least not since the new Codex came out), so forgive me if there has already been one.
I also tend not to like polls, but I have come to realise that some people are a lot more likely to vote in a poll than post a reply, and I wanted to get a feel for what people think.
I can see from the Codex that the Orders system is going to be a very fun and integral part of my army, so I know my Command Squads of both flavours are going to be even more vital links in my chain than they were in the last version of the Guard.
But after that I am unsure as to what role I should be looking for for them.
They was I see it, I have (roughly) six options on how to set them up:
- Both types Min'ed - give orders and try to survive.
Just the basics, don't spend any points on weapons upgrades or anything silly like that. Take a vox if you use them, possibly a Medic for your Company Command. Avoid spending anything else.
These type of Command Squads will be cheap and lack offensive power, making it a poor choice of target for your opponenet, however the ability to issue orders may make them pass up a more expensive or useful target to attack the command squads.
- A Happy Medium
A little bit to make them more interesting, but not enough to paint targets on their backs. Either a power weapon and bolt pistol or a plasma pistol for the officer, a vox, and a special weapon or two. Maybe a Standard or Medic if the points are spare, but not something to worry about.
- Command Maxed, Platoon Min'ed
Keep the HQ beefed up, but leave the Platoon Commands bare so they can be sacrificed along with the troops.
- Command Min'ed, Platoon Maxed
In this variation the Command HQ is a less tempting target but can help the Platoon commands do some damage - this could be great if the Platoon commands have lots of special weapons, as Orders from the Company Command could be used to help maximise their damage.
- Heavy / Special Weapons Squads
Not sure about these ones as they would become too much of a tempting target. They could be useful for attacking targets of opportunity, but a squad with the ability to give orders AND a heavy weapon and a couple of specials isn't going to last very long, so I wouldn't want to put much of anything else in the squad to be blown away with them. It would however be a good way to maximise the number of heavy weapons you can field. Obviously to do this you would do it for both the Company and Platoon HQs.
I'm also quite aware that a major drawback of this tactic is that the orders ranges are quite small, meaning that a static command squad may soon become a useless one. I know Guard aren't renowned for legging it accross the table, but I'd still be worried I'd up having to choose between firing a lascannon at a crucial enemy tank or ordering a vital infantry unit around!
So, what are people's thoughts? I'm asking now because I have three command squads sitting ready to assemble!
So far I was going for a min with the two Platoon Commands - a vox-caster in both, flamer in one and a grenade launcher in the other - but I'm tempted to change them out for something a bit more interesting.
For my Company Command, I definitely want to take Creed, as his increased order range and so on make him a brilliant choice. I could still 'min' him though, by sticking him in a command squad with a medi-pack and a vox caster, and maybe a couple of bodyguards - nothing to notch up the offensive capabilities, but plenty to help keep him alive. I like the sound of Kell but him and Creed in the same squad just screams 'point sink' to me.
If it helps people see things from my point of view, I am looking at fielding most of my infantry min'ed (is that the right way of saying it? 'Mined' just makes me imagine Squats), just a vox and a grenade launcher or the odd flamer to keep them mobile. Most of my nastier killing power is going to be in the forms of heavy weapons squads or special weapon-heavy veteran squads. This is why I will be relying on orders from the officers to help my army really do some damage.
Obviously I haven't used them yet in the new Codex, so if any of you have any particularly strong feelings about ANY of the options, wargear or characters available for the Command Squads, please share them!
It varies far too greatly to be summarized in poll options. It's highly dependent on what you want your CCS and PCS to accomplish and the points size of the army you're creating.
If you want your CCS to provide frontline support as a counter-assault squad or the like, you'll need a lot of bells and whistles. Carapace armor, a medic, Regimental standard, bodyguards, Lord Commissar possibly etc. If you want them to provide heavy fire support give them a lascannon and some plasmas, maybe a Primaris Psyker as well. Both of these options would probably require a higher points game to be useful though. You can also mechanize the CCS, giving them some meltas or flamers and use the command chimera rule to order troops about. This would also require a large points investment and you'd lose the ability to issue orders if the rest of your army is highly mechanized. In low points games giving them no upgrades, sitting them in some screens or cover and giving them a mortar or MoO is a viable option (minimal fire support and issue orders to nearby Inf. Squads w/ heavies or a HWS).
The PCS's orders tend to lend itself more to the mobile roles though. In an infantry list I'd equip them as either a mobile weapon support squad (no heavies, no platoon standard, no medic, etc) with special weapons as you feel needed. They can also be a so-so counter assault squad by kitting them with commissar, the PC with some power weapon, platoon standard, medic, etc. Due to the limited range of the orders they can issue and the nature of those orders, they probably aren't quite as good at sitting at the edge of the board and laying down heavy fire support and issue orders as the CCs. If you choose to mechanize, just treat them as another squad with lots of special weapons and forget your orders for the PC.
Personally I like to use my CCS as a back-line support unit. Low points armies use the MoO or mortar (or both, but that leads to rules confusion apparently). Larger points armies use lascannons/plasmas if you expect high armor values and saves. Auto-cannons/GLs if you expect medium armor or bikes. Or Heavy Bolters/GLs if you expect horde infantry. Then grab a HWS or a combined 20-man infantry squad with 2 heavy weapons, and give them the Bring It Down! or Fire on my target! orders as needed each turn. The 20-man squad and the CCS can pick up two voxes instead of 3 which mitigates a little cost too to make sure the orders stick.
With my PCS I usually mechanize with a Vet Squad or two in low-to-medium points games and forget about their orders. In higher point games I'll take a combined 20-man squad with two flamers and a commissar and march them in front of my PCS armed with whatever special weapons I think will best fit against my expected opponents. Rush the 20-man towards the front lines to tie up enemy units, get a good round of shooting off with FRFSRF from the PCS and 2 flamer templates, then use the commissar to stick around in assault. Since you'll be screening your PCS with this combined squad, camo cloaks are nice to boost the cover save too and protect your special weapons (since the opponent will be less inclined to shoot at a the big 20-man squad with 2 special weapons that is harder to break via shooting thanks to the commissar as compared to the 5-man squad providing much heavier weapon support).
Last edited by Darguth; July 2nd, 2009 at 17:18.
Generally I use them as SWS with orders as a bonus. 5 guardsmen aren't going to win combats, and tricking them out costs way too much for something that still loses to dedicated assaulters. Orders are handy, but hardly vital for an army (especially mech). And the best way to survive is to ride in a Chimera killing people, because if they're dead they can't threaten you.
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With CC squads now veterans it seems a waste to give them junk like medi-kits or standards and far better to give them SW.
Yeah, agreed. Trick them with whatever weaponry you feel will be most useful and then user orders as able.
My first suggestions are a bit on the old side, they really aren't very good counter-assault units (they weren't great in 4E either but they were doable). If you feel you need that Rough Riders are still pretty good choices in my book, GK Termies or Ogryns can do it (but expensively), or a massive unit of conscripts and a commissar just to keep them locked up.
That is definitely not a 'min' squad! Might as well add an advisor or two, and Kell is worth it if Creed will be ordering heavy weapon squads around--you need a way around their bad leadership. You can't get a threat profile bigger than a commander who enables a dozen heavy weapons to reroll hits, wounds and cover saves, not to mention a nasty bayonet charge, so max him out to last.For my Company Command, I definitely want to take Creed...I could still 'min' him though, by sticking him in a command squad with a medi-pack and a vox caster, and maybe a couple of bodyguards
Conversely, I get good results from PCS's who have nothing but a heavy bolter. The PC gives his little orders, bring an extra heavy weapon to the field, is scoring and is also generally ignored. All for barely more than the cost of a single Terminator!
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
CCS should be taken with a full special weapon loadout and given a Chimera. You cant really do much with 5 men, and the CCS is one darn easy KP. Basically, utilise BS4 to a maximum when equipping CCS and PCS.
With PCS, an effective build is to go PCS with Autocannon blobbed with two Infantry Squads with Autocannons, with Grenade Launchers as an option. Stay back and camp the home objective with this one.
Alternatively, with PCS use the ability to spam flamers. Take 4 flamers (BS is of no concern here) and place them in a Chimera with a Heavy Flamer and Multilaser. This squad puts out the most hurt per point in the entire game against horde armies (similar to price as the Hellhound).
If you do the Mathhammer, this squad can easily wipe out the majority of a squad of 30 orks, whereas the Hellhound would be hard pressed to kill half as many. I take PCS this way, and ALWAYS wins its point cost back in games (and then some)
I don't think PCS's have the combined squads rule...could someone check this? I don't have my Codex at hand this weekend.go PCS with Autocannon blobbed with two Infantry Squads
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
They don't. They can, however, sit right behind the infantry blob.
(I run mine as mobile special weapons platforms in a chimera, btw)
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"
If only they could... as it stands anything you give a PCS rather than a line squad is just more than twice as vulnerable. Right now I'm running my PCS with three flamers in a chimera.