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I guess this is slowly working into a "topic of the week" type thing (in honor of Cadaver Junkie, haha). I'm about to start tossing Hellhounds in my list and I surprisingly have not used one before so my questions (before I purchase one) are as follows:
1. Do you or would you use the Hellhound or one of the variant types? How many per point scheme or army, approximately? I'm specifically referring to semi-competitive or fully competitive lists.
2. How do you load up your Hellhound or its variant?
3. Discuss any other strategies or great/especially poor experiences that you may have had.
I guess I'll start things off by stating that I am planning on using 1 traditional Hellhound in my 1,000 point list and perhaps 2 up to a 1,850 pt. list. I'll probably keep it the bare 130 points with the Heavy Bolter hull. I haven't had any experiences yet since I haven't used one!
Mmmm... I have a soft spot in my heart for Hellhounds...
I would say that they aren't a must have, but certainly if you find that your list lacks a little bit of anti-horde, the Hellhound is fantastic. Good strength and AP for infantry, the ability to deny cover, and the fact that it is fast makes it an excellent choice for when you absolutely must burninate.
To address your questions individually...
1) Really, it comes down to your style. Obviously the Hellhound is an all arounder when it comes to killing infantry. You won't be getting through power armor, but you get to stand off a little bit, as opposed to the Banewolf. Because of this, the Hellhound is a bit more survivable, though less effective against MEQ enemies. I would generally take Hellhounds over Banewolves. IG can pack plenty of AP2 weaponry.
Devil Dogs are more specialized, so if you find your list lacking Anti-tank, the Devil Dog can be a good choice. The problem is, there are lots of ways to deal with tanks that are probably better than a Devil Dog, such as Vendettas and Chimelta vets. Still, it's a neat choice.
How many you take should be based on your list's needs. When I ran a gunline, I had a full compliment of three Hellhounds (back in 4th edition) because my infantry was primarily focused on killing tanks, and I had some points to spare. I think Hellhounds are less viable a choice nowadays since Vendettas are so handy. Still, it is great fun to burn out a load of Genestealers who think they're safe from your guns in a forest.
2) I'd keep 'em naked. Heavy bolters only. If I had a bunch of extra points, extra armor.
3) Oh boy... my primary opponent played horde style Nids when he first started, and against my Black Templars force, it was usually a close game. My SMs had a hard time dealing with all of his little guys, and he had a hard time with the armor of my BTs. I started IG awhile after, and he was constantly saying that the only thing that kept him from winning all our games was that 3+ save. It was indeed a glorious day when my Hellhounds so effectively burned out his massive charge that he conceded after my 3rd shooting phase. He was so upset at the carnage visited upon his army that he refused to believe that the profile of the Hellhound was true, asking to see my codex to be sure. Ah good times... I painted special markings on those hellhounds after that day. Excellent times.
As far as strategies are concerned, with the Hellhound and the Banewolf, I'd imagine the strategy is pretty similar. Race forward, Burn/poison, cringe while you receive return fire, repeat if possible. Another cool thing Hellhounds do is draw fire away from other tanks and transports. Their relative cheapness allows you to not fret too much if you lose one, however they can make their points back pretty quickly with some decent rolling. Not to mention, if you're playing against a horde list, that player has got to know that Hellhounds can quickly wreck their world, so there is som psychological effect there, which can in turn make your opponent play a little differently than they wanted to.
At the end of the day, Hellhounds and their varients are useful, but there are definitely good alternatives if you find that you're having a hard time making a choice. Hopefully that's helpful.
Last edited by SimSnow; July 15th, 2009 at 18:38.
Formerly known as SimulatedSnowman
They're also worthy of consideration in lieu of battle tanks all together. If I can afford 3 LRBT variants in a list I can probably afford 4-5 Hellhounds as well. The mass of targets makes opponents anti-tank weaponry geared for your AV14/13 LRBTs overkill, and though you might lose vehicles easier, you'll have more still available to shoot with come your turn.Depends on the variant. Hellhounds probably could use HBs as they will be at-range more often. Conversely Banewolves could use HFs as they'll be diving into the thick of things (and can therefore somewhat perform their intended function if the turret is destroyed). Devil Dogs could go either way. Personally I'd go with a HF probably because you'll be at mid-field most likely trying to get in range for Melta benefits.2. How do you load up your Hellhound or its variant?Used to terrorize my local Nid player in 4th Ed. with my Hellhound, though Nids certainly seemed to have had the upper hand in nearly every other category back then so it was of small consequence. Only played 1 5th Ed game thus far in which I used a Devil Dog against an expected Deathwing army. Killed two termies but failed to pop his LR Crusader, but 80+ pts on the 130ish investment wasn't bad, and I did get a decent opportunity at the LR Crusader before it's Assault Cannon caused it my Dog to Explode!3. Discuss any other strategies or great/especially poor experiences that you may have had.I think that's sound reasoning. Keep them cheap light battle tanks. Your ratio seems like a reasonable deduction too. I *might* consider 2 in a 1k list, but not until you've tried them out and liked them.I guess I'll start things off by stating that I am planning on using 1 traditional Hellhound in my 1,000 point list and perhaps 2 up to a 1,850 pt. list. I'll probably keep it the bare 130 points with the Heavy Bolter hull. I haven't had any experiences yet since I haven't used one!
As for Hellhounds variants vs. Valkyrie variants, honestly I feel they are apples and oranges. Valks are meant to circle the board, harass your opponent with their mobility, and drop troops off to take objectives. Hellhounds are going to be in the thick of it, blocking your opponent's movements and blasting away at them. They are a much more "grunt" type of vehicle meant to get down and dirty.
The basic Hellhound is phenomenal. Even against MEQs it can easily churn out enough armor saves that a squad's specialists will have wounds allocated to them. Lately I've taken to giving them hull multimeltas so they can pinch-hit as tankbusters--they're a little hit-or-miss that way but worth the cost to me.
The ability to put a template exactly where you want it in addition to near-immunity from CC is wonderful. Let the stormtroopers have their Valkyries--we treadheads have our own toy to play with.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
1. Yes I do use the hellhound. I include one in just about every list I build up to 1750 points. At 1750 or higher I tend to start fielding two, sometimes in a squadron if I am fielding Valkarie/Vend
2. I have only ever fielded the basic load out but have never been unhappy with what I got for the points. They are a big enough threat to even MEQ units that they will draw some of the heat from some of your softer targets like transports etc..
3. I really have only good things to say about them. Often when I field a single hell hound, I really wish I had two on the table. They dont often last the entire game as they tend to be high priority targets against many armies, but they are really a deadly tool that once tried, you wont be leaving home without.
Successes I have had include flaming entire squads of firewarriors as well as toasting squds of dire avengers and even striking scorpians. Forcing lots of saves really does win you games.
Overall its a fantastic unit. On a side note, I'd always pick the hellhound over the eradicator as it does the same job more reliably and for cheaper points. Its only downside is the fact it compete's with the Valk for FA slots.
What Guardsmen dont want to hear...
"Ok boys, time to fix bayonets!"
I haven't taken any of the Hellhound variants yet (I've lacked the spare chimera hulls to proxy until now, haven't played a game since I put my latest one together, and am waiting for the new HH kit to come out) but I've thought about them a lot, and I think they're probably best cheap - naked but for some smoke launchers.
Other than that, not much I can add to whats been said already. Devildog has an alternate use to tank cracking - in a pinch, its AP and Strength lets it instant death characters.
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"