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i am currently in a weight loss contest im most likely going to win (im over 8 pounds ahead with only 1 week to go) and when its all done ill have $300 burning a hole in my pocket.
i currently own a vast eldar and tyranid army, and im considering daemonhunters as a potential third. naturally i have some questions.
1. both my armies are insanely fast. is it possible to grant fleet to grey knights through any sort of trickery?
2. how competative are daemonhunters in general?
3. what are commonly considered the best and worst DH units?
4. is it worth it to induct from other armies with dh armies, or is it best to stick to the core group of models?
thats all i got for now. thanks for any responses!
Eldar: W-26, L-4, D-2, Tyranid: W-8, L-0, D-0
I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?
I'll answer what I can.
1) As far as I know of... NO. Grey Knights are notoriously slow. That would be why a great many lists sport 3 LRs. Of course, they do have the option to be taken as Fast Attack choices which allow regular Power Armoured GKs deep strike in.
2)As far as I have heard, we are not very competitive due to having a half codex of sorts. Of course, this is always contingent on the general of the army. Some players knwo how to make their lists more competitive than others do.
3) Not sure on this one as I play Grey Knights only out of the DH codex. But GK termies ROCK!
4) I have been told on numerous occasions that I need to induct guard so that I can get Leman Russ tanks for good Heavy options. I know that inducting Witch Hunters is a popular strat so you can get Seraphim in as a nasty fast attack. (I plan on doing this too)
Of course competitive depends on your point of view. The 3 LR army at 1500pts is always a laugh
Last edited by Pheonix Lord; August 16th, 2009 at 20:39.
I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand
Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
1 - land raiders.
2 - induct guards with chimeras and give them to your PAGK's.
3 - use GK's as allies to marines or guards. Then they would be able to ride on their transports (a common application of this are PAGK's mounted on a valkyrie/vendetta).
PS - I'm not sure I would classify nids as insanely fast. I always have problems catching up to mechdar, dark eldar raider squads, or nob bikers.They can be competitive, however, that would require very strategic playing and some experience. They are not an easy army to play unlike armies such as marines, IG or orks. A lot of people try them a few times, lose, and get discouraged. You always have to work hard for the win as in a typical DH army, every point counts. If you seek a challenge, then try them out. If you want to play an easy army, then turn elsewhere.2. how competative are daemonhunters in general?The best units are without a doubt anything with the term 'grey knights'. Inquisitors can be good and a lot of fun to play depending on how they're kitted out. Inquisitorial storm troopers balance out the GK's high points-costs with low-cost troops. Assassins are a blast to play but will never seriously be competitive. Everything else is gimmicky.3. what are commonly considered the best and worst DH units?The only army worth inducting are guards. They strike a good complement to the GK's high costs and lack of ranged anti-tank. Witchhunters could complement the GK's with inducted seraphims to the GK's weak fast attack options, and space marines cannot be inducted if you're using GK's. Overall, it's something that you'll have to experiment with. I myself play pure GK's and don't normally induct except in higher points games (2000pts+).4. is it worth it to induct from other armies with dh armies, or is it best to stick to the core group of models?
Daemonhunters can be reasonably competitive, but you have to build them in ways that are considered "unorthodox".
People talk about taking 3 land raiders. And LRs are absolutely vital to the DH. However, the days when a pure GK force could be made competitive through superior tactics are gone. Such an army is a superior rock to about 1/2 of the 40K armies' scissors, but a lame rock against the other 1/2 of the 40K armies' paper.
For basic Troops, a pair of ISTs with meltas in Rhinos is a MUST.
Then you either take more of the same, or you induct IG platoons. Or you do a little of both. Mechanizing your platoons is highly recommended, though you can get away without.
You take a pair of land raider crusaders, too. Two because one will just get blown off the table. You need two for redundancy. You also need the mujlti-meltas and anti-infantry firepower those beasts can put out to create a credible threat against both armour and infantry.
And inside those crusaders you put modest-sized squads of GKTs. LRCs + GKTs = one of the best hammer units in all of 40K. The rest of your army serves as the anvil.
But to make it work your anvil must be generally mechanized and it must have meltas. That's the only way you can protect your hammer and provide it with targets to annihilate, thus protecting your anvil.
A deep-strike defense Inquisitor with a pair of mystics (and a multi-melta gun servitor, if you can afford it), in a Chimera/Rhino is very nearly a requirement as well.
Take PAGKs only as you can afford it after all this has been bought. (What I described can be made into an excellent 1500 pt force.) Give your PAGKs psycannons and either sit them on a homefield objective or stick them in one your IG chimeras and make a counter-attack/bunker unit of of 'em.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
2. Depends on tactics and points, and luck. Everyone says you need LRs, and I don't disagree. Hopefully your enemy won't get lucky and pop them quickly. The one bright spot is that a properly tooled PAGK unit will be as tough to pull off an objective as a cat off a couch.
3. Probably GK termies. They have high WS and hit hard. The downside to them is that they have different and weaker rules for their TH/SS combo (SS is much weaker than the SM counterpart), which makes you want to take NFWs all the time, which on the downside can't pop vehicles. Take melta bombs on the Brother-Captain.
PAGKS are good too, since they are great in CC, and most armies will rush towards that. Furthermore, PAGKs get true grit, which basically means to get the most out of them you need to be attacked. That's great for you if you put them on an objective. Let the enemy come to you, and then watch them get torn apart. They also have storm bolters, which means at range they are solid too.
Worst unit would probably be purgation squads, since they are pricy static guys with str 6 guns. In reality they are terrible on a table, but they would cost you 270 points for 5 w/ four psycannons. Also, while I have a soft spot in my heart for the Eversor and Callidus assassins, the Culexus is a single purpose unit, who is really only useful against psykers. If your opponent doesn't field any, well then... The Vindicare is cool. Until you realize he only gets maybe 6 shots a game (one per turn), with a 50% chance to hit on any given turn (special ammo not withstanding, but you only get one of each). A sgt and IC killer, he can do that, but probably isn't going to be able to kill the biggest stuff you want him to.
4. Yes. As others have mentioned, you basically start with half a codex. Induction is probably the only efficient way of bringing your tactics up to snuff. Seraphim are a good choice from WH, as well as a Cannoness with a Celestian squad. From SM, Scouts are good with Sniper Rifles, as they can be good tools for popping enemies unseen (w/ camo-cloaks you get a 3+ cover save in ruins, just make sure you have a secondary team of PAGK or something nearby to protect them from CC) Land Speeders and Attack Bikes are good FA units, especially Land Speeders if you want speed and tactical capability (they can carry up to two heavy weapons and can DS in). LS are somewhat fragile, but they can also hit from range in most loadouts. Attack Bikes are tough little guys who excel in many places. As for heavies, as many have said, the Leman Russ is your best bet.
So scouts (and other SM) aside, SoBs, and Imperial Guard are your best bet, unless you run a IST heavy crew with an Inquisitor and maybe an assassin. (and why would you, except at lower points)
Depends how you build them. Considering they can take advantage of the Gurd and Space Marine Codexes they can be made quite competetive indeed, but if you're looking for a poon-monster army then again, DH aren't the way to go.2. how competative are daemonhunters in general?The BEST DH units are Grey Knight Terminators and Grey Knight Land Raider Crusaders. The Crusaders have some funky rules that not even 5th Ed Smurf ones get that makes them powerhouses when it comes to torrenting stuff down, and as far as CC beater units go the GKTs are pretty difficult to stop.3. what are commonly considered the best and worst DH units?
The WORST ones, I'd say, are Daemonhosts. They're for fun rather than for keeps. Regular Grey Knights are also becoming more of an expensive liability in competetive environments too; ISTs or Inducted Guardsmen are the best way to fill your Troops slots.Good god yes. Inducted Guard and Allied Space Marines get to use their parent Codex's wargear options and stats, so they add a helluva lot to a DH army. That said, if you're going to use Allied Space Marines then, in my opinion, you're better off simply making it a Space Marine army and adding the Daemonhunters as Allies, since it gives you access to all of the options. Inducted Guard can make a Daemonhunters' list kick arse though, and best of all you get to use your Grey Knights alongside them too4. is it worth it to induct from other armies with dh armies, or is it best to stick to the core group of models?
I've found a new love of my grey knights using imperial guard a s a parent list. I'm not on the bandwagon of "i get to take 9 leman russes!" but really like the versatillity of the new guard codex, and the grey knights/ inquisitor complement them very nicely.
PAGK's are first and foremost a ranged unit. 24" stormbolter range can cover a lot of the board. Additionally, any opponent who sees guard and thinks "get in assault" has another thing coming to them when they have 7+ PAGK's and an incinerator nearby.
True LOS is a boon to PAGK's, as it is very difficult to hide a unit from them. 4+ cover saves will fail from enough BS4 stormbolter shots.
Lastly, my IST's are now in use as chimera mounted IG veteran's, and they're florishing qite nicely.