Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I just had a couple of questions regarding different things.
My first inquiries are on land speeder's, I intend on having 2 of them in my 1500 point army and my first concern is if I should put them in the same squad or use them as 2 individual unit's.
Second of all, I have 1 land speeder with a single multi-meta on it. I intend on buying a second LS, and I intend on "completing" the one I already have with spare bits from the LS box.
My problem was, I'm not sure how to fit them. What do LS excel at? And how should I built them to reflect that? Is it better at anti-tank or anti-inf? Is there some sort of balanced approach to it?
Now I'm sure you're asking yourself what the rest of my army look's like in order to comment properly. Well, I've gota LR with assault termies and cassius. 2 tac squad with assortament of special and heavy weapons+rhinos, some sniper scouts running around, and an ironclad dedicated to anti-infantry. That's sums it up pretty well.
My second inquiry was about the assault termies, my question is this, knowing cassius is around, what's better? TH+SS or claws? Or is a mix of both more valuable? What advantages do each have?
My last question was about transports, Rhino or Razorback? IS it smarter to get my full tac squad's in a rhino or combat squading them with a razorback.
The additional weaponry from the razorback is appealing but I'm not quite sure how smart combat squading tact squads is. Is there a massive tactical difference between the two? So if you could illuminate me as to which is smarter and the tactics that should be used in either case I'd be a happy monkey.
As a side-question, when combat squading them, how do I attribute wounds? Do they become completly separate? Or can I "kill" one of the guy's that wasn't actually being shot at? I'm not sure how much sense this question make's and how apparent my question is here.
Anyway, thank's in advance for the responces. Dont be afraid to detail you're post as i'll happily read it all.
If anything I intend to do or anything I'm saying is blatently stupid, feel free to mention it as well.
Multi-melta and heavy flamer is best option in my opinion. Great anti-tank unit and good agaist GEQ.Second of all, I have 1 land speeder with a single multi-meta on it. I intend on buying a second LS, and I intend on "completing" the one I already have with spare bits from the LS box. My problem was, I'm not sure how to fit them. What do LS excel at? And how should I built them to reflect that? Is it better at anti-tank or anti-inf? Is there some sort of balanced approach to it?Cassius is a decent HQ and pretty good with all assault termies.My second inquiry was about the assault termies, my question is this, knowing cassius is around, what's better? TH+SS or claws? Or is a mix of both more valuable? What advantages do each have?
I see some people mix the termies. Under the the new SM-codex i prefere all mine assault termies fitted with TH/SS. The hammer is a threat against every unit/vec in the game in CC, and the shield is pretty hard to get through. The claws i have found pretty mehhh. The better initiative i have found not so important. The oposite players initiativ on cc-elite-units will likely be better anyway, so you go last (and then the SS is good). So it's mostly one more A versus the ability to hurt anything.Here there is different opinion i guess. I love my rhinos. The cheap cost and ability to transport the full unit, is in my opinion more handy than the lonely heavy weapon on the razorback. Of course you could combat squad a 5 man unit with heavy weapon. But there's games where you would want everything mounted and moving, which then is not possible.My last question was about transports, Rhino or Razorback? IS it smarter to get my full tac squad's in a rhino or combat squading them with a razorback.To combat squading or not depends on mission, armylist, oposite players race and armylist, oposite players deploment, terrain and so on. I seem to combat squad less and less in my games.The additional weaponry from the razorback is appealing but I'm not quite sure how smart combat squading tact squads is. Is there a massive tactical difference between the two? So if you could illuminate me as to which is smarter and the tactics that should be used in either case I'd be a happy monkey.YesAs a side-question, when combat squading them, how do I attribute wounds? Do they become completly separate?noOr can I "kill" one of the guy's that wasn't actually being shot at?
Ah, many thanks.
For the land speeder's, are Assault cannon's and Typhoon launcher's not a viable option? I think I have the point's to spare. I'm just saying this because I'm not sure I'll have enough flamer's and multi-meta's to go around, I'll have to check on that.
I also take it from you're suggestion that LS's work well as a balanced unit that can adapt to whatever may come it's way? Rather than a specialized unit that may end up being worthless.
Don't the Claws get an extra attack though? Is it still not worth it with all th extra attacks? Or does the extra defence from the SS and the more powefull TH completly overshadow that?
Thank you for all of the advice and information, it's all understood. Look's like I'll have to try out both as far as razorback's and combat squading tactical squads.
One last thing though, when it comes to kill point's, does the combat squaded tactical squad count as 2 or 1? I'm guessing that from the fact that they are completly seperate that they count as 2?
Okay, that is quite a bunch of questions
lets start with the landspeeders.
There is no "best loadout" for your speeders, it all very much depends on factors like your personal style of play, the rest of your army, your oponents army etc.
You can specialise your speeders for on job 2 h-flamers - antihorde or 2 MM - antitank
while a speeder with both a flamer and a MM could do both just not as well.
(You could fix the guns with magnets for flexibility.)
Another interesting variant is the typhoon, a heavy bolter and missile launchers.
It can move 12" and fire all weapons vs infantry while keeping its distance or fire krag missiles on harder targets. So you see there are both balanced and specialised versions of the Landspeeder, both usefull if they fit in well with the rest of your army.
You have a dread geared to anti infantry and a LR with its lascannons for some antitank, if your tac squads have a blanced assortment of heavy and special weapons I'd propose trying a balanced LS version.( Maybe build a typhoon out of the box you intend to buy and fix your multimelta LS with a heavy flamer as second weapon and field them as seperate units.)
stormshield give you a 3+ invul save and thunderhammers deliver a hefty punch and can take out armour and monstrous creatures but they are slow. LCs strike on ini and reroll to wound which really nice when butchering an oponent that has a lower ini than your marines.
Personally I use mixed teams (TH+SS x3 / LC x2) and so far that worked really well.
rhino or razorback,
a good question that again depends on your playstyle and to some extend on your oponents. In general, if you want to keep the squad together take a rhino to cart them around the board if you want to combat squad them take a razor back and let the guys with the heavy weapon sit in cover and shoot whatever is convenient.
(if your tac squads look something like that: 10 marines +PF + flamer + lascannon you SHOULD combat squad them)
Other than moving faster than footsloggers transports protect your squads from small arms fire (and psi powers like lash) and provide cover after they disembark so they re a good thing to have. From experience: never have a single transport. Your oponent will suspect that something nasty hides in there and shoot it to smolering piece on turn 1; have many and they tend to ignore them till its too late.
In your army the landraider will attract a lot of antitank so your rhinos/razorbacks stand a good chance of surviving a couple of turns.
When you combat squad a unit it defacto becomes 2 units. If your assaulting halfsquad takes a casualty you cannot remove a model from the other halfsquad sitting back in cover blasting away with bolters and a lascannon.
One more thing: that ironclad dreadnought needs a drop pod. It's devastating on short range but it needs to get there. The drop pod allows you to deepstrike the dread where you want/need him adn with some luck it will wreak havoc before it is taken down.
So, I hope that helps to answer your questions
Yes the claws do get an extra attack and you can reroll your wound rolls with them which makes them very usefull vs infantry especially if they have a low ini. I did really well with them vs IG (old) and vs Necrons and my mixed squad (3/2) so far always earned more than its points back.
Thunderhammers are very powerfull indeed and are great to slap high toughness creatures around and can also pop most tanks. The stormshield gives you a 3+ invul save over the 5+ terminators usually have (not to be confused with their 2+ armor saves) which makes them really good at absorbing AP attacks. But even with that good a save you will fail some if you have to make just enough of them.
So if you know you re going to fight an army with lots of fast or high toughness models bring your hammers and stormshields and if you re going to fight something slow like Necrons and the like bring your claws. When not sure what youll be facing bring a mixed squad, at least that's what i do and so far it works....
This is all very interesting, thanks again.
I think I will do this and field them as seperate units as suggested:
-Land speeder 1 with Typhoon launcher's and flamer
-Land speeder 2 with Multi-meta and flamer.
Would that give me an overall balance against everything I'd be facing?
If I have a mix of LC and TH/SS, how do I decide which invul save to use? Is it the majority? if so, if theres 2/2 left in the squad, how do I decide? Sorry if this is obvious.
Am I wrong in thinking that it would be a waste to use my termie squad against basic infantry?
I think I will go with TH/SS because my dread, my LS's can both handle infantry quite well, plus the fact that my basic marines are quite good at taking out light infantry. The better invul save and the fact that they are a danger to vehicles and MC's is more appealing to me.
Again, if what i'm saying isn't making sense, then point it out.
As for the transport's, my tactical squads look something like this:
I'm thinking that I'd probably go with the rhino's, I'll deffinitly try out both though.
Nope, you assign wounds to models in the squad and then roll saves for each group of identically equipped models. Each failure is a wound taken by that group. See the main rulebook for details on assigning wounds to complicated squads.If I have a mix of LC and TH/SS, how do I decide which invul save to use? Is it the majority? if so, if theres 2/2 left in the squad, how do I decide? Sorry if this is obvious.Yeah, they're better for dealing with harder units (although the 2+ save does make a mockery of non-powerweapon attacks).Am I wrong in thinking that it would be a waste to use my termie squad against basic infantry?If you don't want your ML sat in a tank unable to fire because it moved, Rhinos are perfect. I personally like to get as many shots from heavy weapons off as possible, hence the Razorbacks. ML sits back and provides covering fire while the RBack shoots forward with the other half taking objectives. Plus the RBack can do something useful once it's deployed the contents, which the rhino can't.As for the transport's, my tactical squads look something like this:
Okay, thank you. All good.
One last thing, when combat squading, is there never problems with the squad that stays behind not behind able to target enemy units because of terrain and the fact that they stayed behind?
Also, rep for everyone that helped, much appreciated.
As realitycheque alread ypointed out the MM is as good a weapon (sometimes even better) to sit back and cover the field as a lascannon. Just place them into cover and as far onto the board as you can and you ll have targets most of the time. Also keep in mind that your boltguns can fire 24" if you dont move.
I would arm that typhoon Landspeeder with a heavy bolter and missille launchers. The bolter might be slightly less effective vs infantry than a heavy flamer but it has a 36" range and thus allows you to attack anything in a 48" radius (+12 movement) and you have a chance at damaging light vehicles.
If you prefer your termies with TH/SS thats just as good. As mentioned before they are best suited to taking out the tough stuff; demonprinces, carnifexes, character models and the like.