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It is time for another Topic of the Week already and I think it's high time we talked about the APC's of the Space Marines. The drop pod didn't make an appearance until 4th, and then it wasn't very effective and didn't have a plastic model so up until 5th the rhinos and razorbacks were used around the globe by Marine players of all types. Now that 5th edition has come around not only are vehicles harder to destroy, transports are beter, but these two venerable space marine tanks have received a significant drop in points too.
Do you use them? Do you prefer the razorback? Do you ignore them in favor of drop pods? What units ride in them? How does the rhino wall tactic work for you?... Discuss.
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IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
I typically try to mount my Tactical squads in Rhinos, and if I run Sternguard I'll try and fit them in a Rhino as well.
However, if I've given a Tactical squad a heavy weapon that isn't a multi-melta (I run Vulcan because I'm tired of my 1-shot Land Speeders always rolling a 1 to hit when they come in) I may switch the Rhino out for a Razorback and combat squad the Tactical, leaving the Heavy Weapon behind, preferably in cover and close to an objective if possible.
For Razorbacks I usually just leave it with the TL Heavy Bolter, for a few reasons:
1) The other weapons are expensive, and they increase the threat-rating of your little AV 11 tin-can considerably. More guns shooting at your transport means it's less likely to do it's job, which is to move your troops around.
2) I just don't have any of the other weapons aside from the TL-LC
Space Marines: W15/L7/D3
Imperial Guard: W6/L4/D0
Actually I think Rhinos are pretty nice in 5E because they are much cheaper now. Personally I play an Elite/Deep-Strike Army so not much Rhinos ... but in a normal Army they are golden imo.
For Razorbacks ... I like them with Lascannons. A bit expensive though for AV11. What I don't like are Razorbacks with default Heavy Bolter. They are a lot more expensive than a Rhino, have smaller transport capacity and no repair rule (afaik). Is not worth the money imo. There are better ways to add Heavy Bolters.
I use Rhinos more often than Razorbacks, but when I do use Razorbacks they usually comprise about 33% of my transports. Mostly, I do this for the troop capacity. I use multi-meltas as my primary heavy weapon. However, when I do use a longer range heavy weapon such as a plasmacannon I always use a Razorback with heavy bolter and combat squad the unit. I normally don't use TL-LC due to the higher cost and increased threat for an AV 11 vehicle.
As for the mobile cover a 'wall of Rhinos' provides, this tactic works very well for me. I've won a lot of games using this tactic. Amongst my normal gaming group I've earned a decent amount of rep by being shrewd with both normal cover and mobile cover.
Last edited by Chirality; August 19th, 2009 at 18:29.
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Wolf player here. I prefer Drop pods cause my normal opponents are DE and Tau. have i mentioned i hate Railheads? so for obvious reason *cough* AP1 everywhere*cough* my rhinos dont last. but i have run a razorback along side my Long Fangs as cover/ extra TL LC, that actually works i find. I plant the Long Fangs then run the Razorback around as a bullet sponge/cover/extra TLLC.
The important thing, I think, is mass. You don't just want one Razorback, or only a couple Rhinos out there. They're fantastic in big groups. You create a ton of targets for your opponent to have to make decisions about, you're highly mobile, and you can create lanes of fire to funnel the bad guys through. Awesome stuff for a low, low price.
I usually take Razorbacks, for 2 reasons:
Rhinos get used for Sternguard (if I don't want to use drop pod) but that's about it. I *NEVER* use them for assault units, as I think that's somewhat retarded. They're good for providing mobile cover though.
- I usually don't take MMs, so I like to leave the heavy weapons behind
- A RB is more useful after delivering troops than a Rhino
I play with a very straightforward five tactical squad army. I have built the models so that I can go either five Rhinos or three and two heavy bolter Razorbacks.
I think this traditional marine army is great against all comers and I have plenty of fun with it. I find that Rhinos can prove life savers as they are often low priority targets right up to the point when you load up the survivors of a battered squad and zip onto an objective...
As for the versus, it's not about the weaponry as in some ways the weapons on Razorbacks provide bonus fire rather than serious firepower. Being able to fit a whole squad or only half is a big deal; it changes a great deal of the way you approach a game tactically.
When I play five rhinos I can outflank my opponent, thank you Khan, with full tactical squads who can then clamber out and empty their weapons into the foe at close range. When I play Razorbacks it is usually because I think that a pair of Heavy Bolters will be a nice bonus, but more because I will be leaving the five man lascannon combat squads at home while the flamers and powerfists combat squads storm the enemy in their outflanking transports...
That's how I play at the moment. Playing with just tactical marines is proving to be a great learning experience at the moment so I may change my mind later...
Yea, but in kill point scenarios having that many more targets just makes it easier for your opponent to gain more points than you because of the fragility of the Rhino.
I usually just stick with Rhinos for most troops, except my command squad and Captain. However, if I need to hold onto my devastators for some reason (they have a unfortunate tendency to not last past, say, turn 2), I mount them in Razorbacks to give the enemy something to shoot at beside my troops, and to offer a little anti-horde support with its heavy flamers.