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Say for 1k points.
With 2 leman russes and 1 vendetta, i feel i do not have sufficient long range firepower...i kill on average only a handful of models, or maybe 1 vehicle, before everything is in CC and one shotting my tanks with powerfists, or MCs.
Any ideas here?
Pedal to the metal if something gets too close for comfort - even if it means sacrificing round of shooting, don't make it easier for you're opponent. Stationary tank in CC is as good as scrapped.
Also I would strongly recommend browsing through the forum, there is at least couple of topics about mech lists (search for Veterans, Valkiria's/Vendetta's - those are backbone of any mechanized Guard, also those which threads about upgrades such as extra armour should help clarify things or two).
Anyway, good luck.
I have looked through them, first few pages anyway, nothing really grabs my attention though. Except for a tourney list with 2 vendettas and 2 russes, but im trying not to be too cheesy.
I cant keep running away forever. Against CC armies i already deploy as far back as is possible, and moving 12 inches away doesnt work when you are already out of space(enemy advancing on both flanks, outflankers, etc), or when you have to risk a immobilisation result when moving through a large patch of terrain.
Usually i get only 2-3 turns of shooting, and then they are one shotting my tanks at combat speed in CC, while i have only killed 10% or less of their army.
Battlecanons are crap, when the base itself is already 2-3 inches wide and with 2 inch coherency, you will be hard pressed to get a high initial model count even when placed in the center of a squad. Then they scatter, only hit 2-3 units in the blast radius, and those 2-3 units get a 4+ cover save. Paying a ridiculous amount of points for a anti-horde weapon that will never make its oints back. People keep telling me their battlecanons take out entire squads of orks or marines in one go, but i never seem to play against guys who bunch their models up in base to base for me to do that.
Vendetta is hilariously easy to take down as well, sometimes when i lose initiative, i cant even get a single round of shooting before it gets shakened permanently, or worse. Also eldar skimmers immobilizing it and then dancing out of hull mounted arc of fire is pretty awesome.
My experience with vets/command squad in chimeras is basically...fire off the multi-las a few times before the enemy is real close, angle the chimera so the guys can fire out of the back, fire, kill a few models, lose 2-3 plasma gunners from get hot rolls, next turn, something blows up the chimera by shooting at AV10 side armor, half the squad dies from the explosion(3+ to wound, 5+ to save, yeech), and then they run or get charged and killed.
Im hard pressed to get shooty enough....and i cant quite figure out what im doing wrong
My basic list is :
CCS with 3 plasma guns, officer of the fleet, chimera
2x vet squads with 3 meltas, chimera
2 leman russes with HB sponsons(sponsons rarely get more than 3 wounds a turn...4+ cover save...not very impressive for 20 points for the pair)
Last edited by Question2; August 22nd, 2009 at 20:43.
Tank shock, push them away. If you move 12" they hit you on a 6+ and they bunch up nicely for flamers (give all your vehicles hull flamers).
Russes are indeed crap, at least the basic battle cannon, punisher, exterminator, and vanquisher.
Don't get out to fire meltas, shoot from the hatches.
For 1000 points, you could try this.
CCS with 3 meltas, Chimera
Vets with 3 meltas, Chimera
ISTs with 2 meltas x2
Vendettas pick off transports from afar, meltas get up close, Eradicators and flamers annihilate infantry.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
How do you use tank shock to push them away? Any footsloggers would just end up within 1 inch of the vehicle, and in prime position to shoot/assault the chimera, or assault the passengers after fire support kills AV10 side armor.
Also cant really tank shock transports or a MC...
Im not getting out to fire meltas o.O.
Im not understanding where you are getting the points for that...
2 eradicators alone is 380 points, 2 vendettas is 260, 2 vets in chimeras with meltas are something like 300 points, CCS with 3 meltas is 120+ points, that easily breaks the 1k barrier, without the sucidal stormtrooper squad costing 100+ points, and this is without officer of the fleet/mystics for deepstriking/outflanking protection.
2 x Eradicator: clean = 320
2 x 5 x IST's: meltas x2 = 140
2 x Vendetta = 260
Vets: 3 x melta + chimera = 155
CCS: 3 x melta + chimera = 135
IST: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Oh was thinking about the executioner...
Anyway, dont i need 2 vet squads in that list? For basic troops.
Battlecannons don't suck. That takes care of that discussion. It scatters? Boo hoo. So does damn near every weapon in the IG. LRBT is largely considered one of the best tanks in all of 40k. 72 inch pie plate that murders MEQs and below? Yes please. And it can be used as anti-light vehicle in a pinch. You're paying a ridiculous amount? It's an absurdly cheap tank and it will be useful against every single army out there.
Unlike the Eradicator, which is more expensive, has much shorter range, much less str so can't hurt vehicles, AP4 which means Marines really won't give a crap, and that's most of the armies out there. And it scatters just as much as the battlecannon. You can tell I heavily favor the LRBT over the Eradicator. They just dont seem like they'd be any good unless you're facing a 4+ or below horde.
Vendettas are hilariously easy to take down? Compared to what? A Russ tank? Notice how every non-Russ vehicle IG have is AV12, or worse. They're no harder to take down than damn near anything out there. It's not that flimsy. Not to mention.. what the hell are your Vendettas doing getting shot up? They should be either hugging your table edge since they can fire across the board, or outflanking and getting first shot.
Same with Chimeras filled with Vets and the like. I don't know why yours die all the time. Mine go on to wipe out numerous crisis suits and broadsides. Oh, and you don't need to position your Chimera all funky. All guns are fired from the top hatch. You don't need to expose side/rear armor. And why do you care so much if a squad dies or not. You're the friggin' Imperial Guard. You should have 3 or 4 such Chimeras. Redundancy.
Im just talking about my experiences with leman russes.
I fire the battle canon for 2-3 turns before they one shot my leman russ with some powerfist/MC.
In that 2-3 turns, every turn i fire, i manage to get about 4-5 models under the template, and those guys get 4+ cover saves. Half the time it scatters so i only get 2 models(or less!) under the template. Again, 4+ cover save.
In the end i kill a handful of cheap ork boyz/gaunts/etc, in return they one shot my 170 point tank in CC.
And the heavy bolter sponsons are really not that much better...9 shots, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound on T4, 4+ or 3+ saves...woo so i kill 1 or 2 guys a turn.
Its kinda hard to position the vendetta out of range considering its xbox huge, and its really not hard to get 48 inch weapons within range of a vendetta.
Not in 1k points, i only have 2 vet squads and 1 CCS. Also i always play with all shots taken from the rear hatch, since top hatch feels like rules lawyering to me for obvious reasons.
You mean, you're taking shots from... rear, from the point which actually doesnt have any fire points at all ? I mean... correct me if I'm wrong, but are you firing from the acess point i.e rear doors ? Unless, by "top hatch" you mean the one located on the turret and by "rear hatch" you mean one with lasguns sticking out - because now I'm quite confused.
And, yes H. bolter sponson are not worth the points, just stick to hull flamer (in case something gets close enough) and battlecannon (in a standard Russ), also, if you have issues with accuracy then you could always switch to Griffons - they won't negate cover or armor saves, but with a little luck they will deal enough wounds to ensure that target fails at least some of them. In the situations like this, while cover is a main problem, Eradicator should prove more efficient then LRBT as ==He== suggested - also, hellhound is one heck of a choice - but it will get shot at. A lot.
In any case, you could always leave LRBT's behind and get additional Veterans (armed with flamers, for example - I know, I know, not the best choice avaible) mounted in chimeras.