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Ever since I read the entry for the Manticore I've though "Wow that thing is either exceptionally deadly or a complete dud." I'm curious how they've played for people who use them.
Do they really lay down as much hurt as it looks like they can, or do they not accomplish much? How often do they die even with terrain?
I'm trying to think if I'd ever like to play one, they do look quite fun. :]
D3 S10 blasts over 4 turns, what's not to like?
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Lowish armor, minimum range if firing indirectly, very exposed if firing directly. I'm not saying they're bad, I just want to know if they're worth their weight in gold more often than not.
Eh, I'm not sold one them. Sure they can be nasty but they can be pretty poor and i'm not one for randomness.
Sure they're Str10 Ordinance so they can Smash Vehicles apart but trying to hit something with Blast is pretty hard. Then you could be wasting the other 2 missiles if it does hit. If it does have the other 2 missiles.
Ok so what about Infantry killing? Can't cause serious hurt to MEQ due to the AP4. Ok So it's a Hoard killer..... But for less points i can get 2 Griffons which are more accurate and cause just as much pain to hoards....
Over 6 Turns with 1 Manticore you're getting anywhere between 4-12 Large Blasts. With 2 Griffons i've got 12... plus you can re-roll the scatter with the Griffons.
Yeah, but the Griffon has pretty crappy range and can't scratch vehicles. And if something is close enough to the Manticore to get into the minimum range, then it's most likely close enough to fire at directly. At which point who cares how fragile it is. Just as fragile as a Griffon.
As for number of shots, the Manticore stops shooting after turn 4. Lets look at the first 4 turns of the game. 4-12 shots for the Manticore. 8 shots for the Griffon. Same average. And really, it's no guarantee your artillery will be alive past turn 4. It's a copout, but I like to get the most out of my artillery right away when there are still tons of models on the board.
Not to say Griffons are bad, they're amazing, but they're even further shoehorned into medium range anti-horde with no other role while the Manticore can also demolish any vehicle it hits at unlimited range.
Also against most infantry the griffons will average more kills than the manticore, simply due to the precision bonus they have.
Anyway I aswell have wanted to at least try the manticore out, it just never seems to fit into my lists.. Probably because I'm unsure to what role I should give it.. As discussed above it's not the optimal infantry killer, neither does it excel at killing vehicles so what you have is a tank that's only decent at two things..
Yeah I agree, it's so powerfully awkward. The thought process is like "Man I can't wait to......hmm what do I do with this thing?" At least to me.
Heh. I think it's a pretty damn optimal infantry killer. Strictly on a single vehicle basis I'd argue it's the best anti-horde vehicle in all of 40k. Yes, you can grab more Griffons for the same price.
And yes the Griffon range isn't great. There's a very good chance you won't have anything to shoot at first turn.
where also talking about D3 large template blasts for each missle here!, sure it has 24 inch minimum range, place it at the back of the board them and it will guarantee 99% of the time, a hit on something, providing that it doesn't die first turn.
It's also a good distraction if you have another big bang like the leman russ exercutioner hanging about.
For me, 160 points helps a heck of alot, with an army of chimeras, and since i don't have many long range weaponary in my 1500 points army and i've got more than enough for close range fighting, the manticore is one very nice addition to those pesky sniping armies, that like to play hide and seek.
It's a better choice than a leman russ for it's role that i just discribed from above and it can also fire indirectly, something that's better than AV 14.
However, i don't have enough experience with the griffon to comment about it too much, epseically when i have 5 chimeras on the go.
Hmm... maybe is more a matter of taste. Griffon is anti-horde only, Manticore is double porpouse.
I think that is cheaper in money to buy 3x Manticore than 9x Griffon, just like is cheaper to play elite armies than an horde armies. But, to be honest I am only able to play them with proxies in friendly games.
About the "a squadron of 2x Griffons can survive more than the lonely Manticore" argument, it dont take in consideration the fact that a single squad/vehicle or squadron of vehicles of the oponent can fire to both Griffons and or assault both vehicles and that they can be destroyed if inmobilized. Or the fact that is easer to hide behind terrain a single Manticore than than 2x or 3x Griffon. I think that we discused a lot before the pros and cons of squadron rules, the general opinion is that they are balanced with benefits and weakness.
Also, if we play an Apocalipsis game the Manticore is a better choice with 2.5 times more range. But if we play Patrol rules a Griffon is a more logic choice fluff and points wise.
In my humble opinion, the choice is more about against what army list we play, the size and the type of game.
Last edited by mareo; August 25th, 2009 at 01:51. Reason: Lower the tone
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