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  1. #1
    Junior Member IronSnake's Avatar
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    Anoying God types...

    Hello people,

    I'm mostly a painter and modeler, so I have to admit I'm not an expert at gaming, I haven't memorized all the codex's or anything.

    So when I'm asked to come up with 750 pts for a game, the first thing I think is 'well, clearly characters are out, that'd just be rude in a game this size'. Wrong...

    No matter what size army I'm working with, the Chaos and Eldar players always seem to bring little gods to the table, you know the ones, Toughness 10 so nothing can possibly kill them. It's kind of annoying.

    So my question is: what can a marine army bring to the table in a 750 pts game which will quite easily defeat a chaos god, avatar, etc?

    Cheers,

    Please check out my new blog and let me know what you think.

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  3. #2
    Junior Member Aradai's Avatar
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    Something with a Thunder Hammer might do the trick. Just regular power fists and missile launchers can take out the nasty stuff. Super HQs can't hold objectives so sometimes just staying away from them is the way to go...

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    Sternguard for high toughness, grey knights allies for invulnerable saves.

    Sternguard can drop his elites and troops very well too and grey knights should roll just about anything though they're pretty pricey.

  5. #4
    Senior Member seismic's Avatar
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    A librarian with null zone can also be of some help: Make those invulnerable save not a sure thing anymore. For a 750 I'd stay with a minimum of equipment, maybe a jump pack to keep me out of reach of assaults or something. Try out some scouts with the Hellfire shell as well, snipers could help if your lucky.
    "The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
    -Anaxagoras of Clazomenae

  6. #5
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    Sternguard can do the trick on just about anything. If you want to be particularly nasty you can field Darnath with them. He is not only almost impossible to kill himself (many wounds, very good armour and invulnerable saves, immunity to instant death) and can dish out quite well with his S10 thunder hammer, but he can also let Sternguard re-roll failed to hit rolls.

    Together (a full squad of Sternguard and Darnath) they are 450 points and you'll have a hard time fitting in your troops, but they can do a lot.
    A rapid-firing squad of Sternguard with Lysander will cause 7.4 wounds on any toughness with a save of 4+, and still 4.9 wounds on any toughness with a save of 3+. If toughness isn't too high and the save is 3+ you can also safely use retaliator ammo (since the 1s for getting hot can be re-rolled with Darnath too). You can even take apart anything with an armour save of 4+ from up to 30" away or deny 5+ armour save units in cover any and all of their saves entirely! And all that while sitting back in a fortified ruin giving you a 3+ cover save...

    It costs a lot of points, but it works for C'tans, Avatars, Demon Princes, Greater Demons, Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes and probably everything you can imagine... Sternguard rock.
    Of course their performance is not all that high without Lysander's bolter drill, but still 3/4 of the above without him - probably still enough. If you take Pedro instead of Darnath you make Sternguard scoring, helps you out quite a lot and his storm bolter is awesome (and better than a heavy bolter on anything that isn't T6 or higher...). He also gives you bombardment which might help exterminate all those annoying lesser beings that flank those god types left and right...

    Scouts' sniper rifles have become very unreliable and Librarians' Nullzones don't help much with the rest of the enemy army. But Sternguard can kill that god type and then the rest of those bastards too! They are so flexible.
    Last edited by Red Archer; August 24th, 2009 at 22:15.

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    Scouts with sniper rifles come in handy.

  8. #7
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Angels]Bard View Post
    Scouts with sniper rifles come in handy.
    They were the best we could do in 4th, but they have become weak (though cheaper). You need more than twice (*2.222) as many sniper rifle shots with BS3 than hellfire shots with BS4 on a target of any toughness and any save (except for a 5+ armor save where the advantage of hellfire becomes by far even more disproportionate) to cause the same amount of wounds.
    Now sniper rifles do have longer range, but they are immobile and put out only one shot a piece. They also aren't as versatile. Sternguard can cope with anything and rapid-fire. They do better.

  9. #8
    Senior Member seismic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Archer View Post
    They were the best we could do in 4th, but they have become weak (though cheaper). You need more than twice (*2.222) as many sniper rifle shots with BS3 than hellfire shots with BS4 on a target of any toughness and any save (except for a 5+ armor save where the advantage of hellfire becomes by far even more disproportionate) to cause the same amount of wounds.
    Now sniper rifles do have longer range, but they are immobile and put out only one shot a piece. They also aren't as versatile. Sternguard can cope with anything and rapid-fire. They do better.
    True. But if you're in a 750 point game, even with scoring Sternguard, you'll need troops, 2 of them. While Tacticals are more resilient than scouts and more accurate, they cost more: Both in minimum cost and total upgrade cost.

    And while its true that Snipers are less threatening in this current incarnation, they have other asset at their disposal: Scout movement/Outflanking, Move trough cover, Infiltrate & access to Hell fire(heavy bolter) shells, which to it self is well worth the cost of a 5 man scout squad in my opinion. And if you are to use hellfire shells, why not add snipers into the mix?

    Comparing Strenguads to Scout isn't a good idea, since they aren't competing for the same force organization position. Their purpose is different ,and their synergies are different:

    - If you're gonna use Darnath, His bolster defense will be most effective with a scout squad, not to mention their relative cheap point cost will balance things out .

    -If you're going with Pedro, His inspiring presence and stubbornness will compensate for the scout's mediocre close combat.

    -Add Telion for some strategic advantages: Pinning troops with his Stalker bolter or killing that "powerfist guy" rushing forward, saving your Sternguards, with his Eye of vengeance .
    Last edited by seismic; August 25th, 2009 at 02:34.
    "The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
    -Anaxagoras of Clazomenae

  10. #9
    Senior Member joebloggs1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSnake View Post
    Hello people,

    I'm mostly a painter and modeler, so I have to admit I'm not an expert at gaming, I haven't memorized all the codex's or anything.

    So when I'm asked to come up with 750 pts for a game, the first thing I think is 'well, clearly characters are out, that'd just be rude in a game this size'. Wrong...

    No matter what size army I'm working with, the Chaos and Eldar players always seem to bring little gods to the table, you know the ones, Toughness 10 so nothing can possibly kill them. It's kind of annoying.

    So my question is: what can a marine army bring to the table in a 750 pts game which will quite easily defeat a chaos god, avatar, etc?

    Cheers,
    They are space marines.
    Jack of all trades, masters of none.

    There is nothing that will kill a MC "quite easily" in shooting or close combat.
    You need a combination of both.
    Try and take off a couple of wounds in shooting, then get another couple in combat.

  11. #10
    Junior Member A.T.'s Avatar
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    430 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Astynax View Post
    grey knights should roll just about anything though they're pretty pricey.
    Avatars will smash through 2-3 tooled up GKT before they swing and are more vulnerable to autocannons and the like than the GK's weapons.

    Summoned daemons get more attacks but can be kicked down to I3 and beaten up a little before they swing. Psycannons and such will also hurt them.
    - you could just take a single brother captain with incense and attach him to one of your squads but he's going to get crucified by the daemon in the first turn of combat.

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