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I was wondering how space marines stacked up to strong-largescale armies such as IG and Necron.
Are space marines a dominant apoc race? Also, is their lack of superheavies and Strength D (other than the thunderhawk) a glaring weakness in apocalypse? Would it be worth it to field more than 1 TH gunship?
Any army can be successful at Apoc. It is all a matter of how you use them. Space Marines have their own strengths and weaknesses. If you were to attempt to get into a shooting match with an shooty IG Apoc army, you would be in trouble. But, if you were to take a drop pod army, you may have better luck.
My SWs fare just fine without superheavies. My wolves are tough enough (and riding in armored cans popping smoke) that I have enough time to get across the board and start reaking havoc.
Lack of D weapons is not a big deal. Having a D weapon helps, but it isn't an autowin.
Flyers are very powerful in Apoc. Many of us would love to have a T.Hawk. If you have the resources or resourcefulness to get a T.Hawk, they can only help. (your opponents might not like you very much if you field 2)
Basically, SM are just fine for Apoc. They can take any army on and make it a good game. (But the same applies to any other army in the game as well)
Luckily Titans are very usuable for any Imperial Force.
I've never seen a titan fielded by space marines before.
Hmm can thunderhawks take out opposing air units (do they have any AA capabilities?) How would on fare against say an Eldar Vampire Hunter or a Tau Tiger shark... or even a manta?
Apoc is an avenue to get everybody's fun toys out without having to worry about force organization. I've played games with my Wolves teamed up with Tyranids and Necrons. You just have to push the "I believe" button and make it happen. (SW/Tyranid combo we validate by saying the Wolves fitted mind control collars to the bugs or vice versa.
Of course, its much more believable to have Imperial Forces teamed up together, such as a Titan working with Space Marines. Tau working with IG. (IG reginemnt joined the empire for the greater good).
Its been awhile since I looked at the Flyer rules. I don't have my Apoc book any more. You'd have to get a copy to see the rules. Maybe someone can give you a brief overview, but they can't go into specifics due to copyright issues.
I was mainly wondering what the thunerhawk's capabilities were, can it do Air to air combat vs a Vampire Hunter or Nightwing? And if so, would it likely come out victorious?
I read on another part of the forum that Strength D is a huge determining factor in apocalypse (namely those who have it stand a far better chance than those who do not) -and was wondering if this put space marines in a detrimental position versus armies with a high selection of Strength d super heavies (IG, Eldar, maybe tau to an extent...)
As for Destroyer weapons... Not really, no. They're powerful and very useful, but not a game breaker unless they're present in large numbers or mounted on heavy Titans.
If there's a lot of them, you'll have a huge edge in infantry strengths due to the sheer points drain they cause (several hundred points per gun, typically).
The ones mounted to Heavy Titans (Warlord and such) tend to affect large areas (which magnifies their effect significantly) and have plenty of supporting firepower from its neighbouring weapon mounts. You'll still have thousands more points invested in troops and conventional tanks though, so it's not so unbalanced so long as you're prepared to shoot up large targets (and really - this is Apocalypse. you're foolish to leave the heavy weaponry at home!).
Don't forget you can field any imperial tanks alongside the Marines, my Stormlord might not have a D gun but it certainly reaps an impressive toll - current record of 20 dead eldar in one turn, just from the main gun - and allows my troops to advance relatively unscathed due to the mass of fire it draws
Are there rules for the warlord or reaver yet? And surely these tip the scale as far as to the haves and the have-nots?
I was previously under the impression that strength D monstrosities were the dominant force. So is it common for Space marines to adopt IG (or titanicus) Titans, or Tanks? I haven't seen any Battlereports as such. Anyone have a link handy?
EDIT: What anti-air options do space marines have? Are they effective?
@ reality check, you field stormlords in your Blood angel army for apoc?
Last edited by loveless; August 28th, 2009 at 04:53.
Hell yeah I field my Stormlord and I usually combine it with the 'Replacements' asset so when it dies (being the only true superheavy on our table, it usually get every bombardment, vortex grenade etc thrown at it) I can just roll it back on the following turn
I've got a special datasheet for Pax Angelus that I've made up and had ratified by my usual opponents, so it costs me 800* points but it has to take 2xHF, 2xHB sponsons, has Assault Cannons instead of Heavy Stubbers on the rear pintles, and is effectively driven by a BA version of Chronos (i.e. BS5, immune to Driver/Gunner stunned rolls). It's basically the BA equivalent of Fortress of Arrogance.
(*600 for basic tank w/ 4 sponsons, 50 for the Assault Cannons, 70 for Chronos and then a 80pt fudge factor to make sure it's not biased in my favour)