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I'm building infantry platoons with the focus on only using two platoons of basic guardsmen and a company command squad for an entire army. My plan is to build a versatile, all-comers force without veterans, penal legion, conscripts, or special characters. In addition, this force will not be supplemented by transports, tanks, elites, fast attack, or heavy support. I'm talking two platoons and a company command squad. That's it.
I'm keeping this in the forum proper as opposed to the army list section because I don't want the concept of points to be the emphasis. I want to look at a comprehensive force that can easily add or drop units as required to meet certain point values. All that said:
My first platoon (versatile, likely to be the mobile platoon):
PCS - 2 x Grenade Launchers, Autocannon
5 x Infantry Squad - GL, AC
2 x Heavy Weapon Squad - AC
1 x Heavy Weapon Squad - HB
2 x Heavy Weapon Squad - Mortar
2 x Special Weapon Squad - GL
My second platoon (heavy hitters, more likely to remain static):
Here's where I have the problems. My plan is to include Lascannons in all of my line infantry squads. I figure the 10 wounds for 1 gun keeps the threat up but the risk down. In addition, I could use some more AP. I've strongly considered the sniper rifle, as the range and rending could pair nicely with the lascannons, and I have a soft spot in my heart for pinning weapons. On the other hand, plasma could make sense as the high strength and low AP pair decently with the Lascannon.
I also am torn between my 5 heavy weapons squads, as I would like some punch there. I could see one Lascannon squad, two Missile Launcher squads, and two more Autocannon squads providing some threat to monstrous creatures, wraithlords, DPs, etc.
Finally, for my special weapon squads I'm torn between the plasma and the sniper rifles again. Either would fit with the theme of the platoon I think, but I'm very open to suggestions. In general, I have a very tough time imagining melta weapons on guardsman in a gun line surviving long enough to do any real damage.
Thank you in advance for your inputs. The second platoon really seems to be giving me a tough time conceptually.
A very interesting concept. The melta squad coud provide a fire magnet for very few points but is just a bit too fragile. I like the idea of sniper squads, they've always appealed to me. My main advice would be to keep as much as you can as cheap as possible.
The HWSs will likely get picked off rather easily, though I suppose if you have enough in an army it becomes too much to deal with.
I would say no to HWTs in command squads though, as you want them to be flexible for orders.
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I've considered a similar format for an army.
Basically a platoon for advancing on objectives and second platoon for providing cover fire. The first should be light on heavy weapons (or at least only have cheap heavy weapons) as it will spend most of the time moving, giving two squads commissars would give you the option of combining the squads into to large stubborn ones, for tar pitting the enemy.
The fire support platoon should be everything the first one isnt, lascannons and missile launchers en masse, the heavy weapon squads from the first platoon will likely stay behind and the special weapon squads from the second platoon will probably advance (with the exception of sniper squads).
As for which heavy and special weapon squads, I'd go with a good mix, when you havent got tanks or sentinels to provide mobile heavy weapons, you'll need you special weapons to be adaptable.
For the advancing platoon, I wouldnt give them a heavy weapon, as it will most likely be wasted, but for the second one, a mortar or similar (if you can manage to keep them hidden) would be good.
The CCS would probably be most helpful providing fire support, to make the best use of their orders, where as the PCS from the fire support platoon, might be more useful advancing.
Originally Posted by Karmoon
Generally, you'll want to keep your HWS with similar weapons. Mixing only invites you to have the wrong tool for the job and makes life easier for your opponent, picking off your vulnerable squads that actually pose a threat.
If you want a pure 2 platoon set up, I'd recommend something like this:
CCS-Creed, camo, vox, flag, assorted upgrades
3x Infantry Squad-power weapon, meltagun, melta bombs, Commissar w/ power weapon, 1 vox for all 3 (merge together as your assault buffer, outflank if you want)
2x infantry-lascannon, 1 vox between them (pair up and enjoy those 4 orders)
HWS-autocannons (nails light armor, racks up the wounds, dirt cheap)
Rinse repeat for both platoons. With this set up you have 2 mobile blobs that can hold off most assault units practically all game and threaten armor with meltaguns and bombs in a pinch. Behind them you set up lascannon batteries to benefit from Creed's orders and go after heavy armor. They aren't ideal armor hunters, but you work with what you've got. Backed up you have a ridiculous number of autocannons. The only thing this weapon doesn't terrorize is AV14, everything else gets mulched by sheer weight of fire.
Add special weapons and other platoon elements to taste.
Personally, I do not think Special weapons squads are worth it if you are not using the demo charge. You would be better off dividing into more platoons with more platoon command squads as they are 5 points cheaper, give you an additional order and can take an extra weapon.
Plasma. Plasma. Plasma. Plasma. Plasma.
Thanks for the help.
@ ArtificiallyEnhanced: I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at with the HW teams preventing the command squads from being flexible. I'm under the impression an officer can move, shoot, run, (just not fall back or go to ground) and still issue orders. Are you saying you move your command squads to get in "orders" range? That makes sense, but I'm just wondering your point of view.
@Gorbass: I would prefer not to use commissars, but I could be swayed with a powerful argument. I think 1/2 the price of a unit on such a disposable force is less efficient than having more guns, but I'm certainly not an expert. You also said the both PCS could move with the mobile element, and the CCS could remain with the static force. It looks like the platoon level orders actually lend themselves well to a mobile paradigm, whereas the CCS does seem to have more of a "firepower" feel to their orders. Interesting... Is that what you were getting at?
@==You==: I have been on the autocannon bandwagon since 3rd edition, and I finally have got around to making an Imperial Guard army (after Tau, Deathwing, Space Marine Bikes, Orks). I think they're sweet, which is why my first platoon has 12 in it, and I will likely include 6 in my second platoon. However, that gives me 18 autocannons out of 42 heavy weapons. That seems like plenty. I've included some heavy bolters, which I fell in love with during my space marine days. I want to use a couple of mortar platoons, just because pinning is so fantastic and mortars threaten all the stuff my other guns can't see. I plan to have at least 6 lascannons. That leaves me 9 more heavy weapons to work with, and all would be in teams. Would you honestly recommend having 27 autocannons in two platoons? It seems like a little diversity could be useful, but I already have some diversity. I'd love to hear your opinion on proportions of each heavy weapon within an army, as all 42 being the same seems a smidge bland.
@rufusmcdufus: I hear what you're saying. Reading your words sparked the concept of a counter assault special weapons squad waiting with my firebase. I could put two flamers and a demo charge on one squad, and let them respond to the eventual enemy charge. Inexpensive, can't truly miss, and could put out a ton of wounds on hordes or force quite a few saves on MEQ. It seems like two demo charges in one unit is begging to get shot at, but what do you think?
@imperator100: So, what are you trying to say? I got it. You like plasma. Would you include plasma with some of the infantry squads armed with lascannons, or would you put 3 plasma with a special weapons squad? Perhaps you're telling me that whenever faced with a choice of weaponry, choose plasma. Care to expand?
Regarding the orders, that was exactly where I was going with it
I think Bring it Down! is better used on a lascannon/missile launcher squad, that needs it more, than on a infantry squad, same goes for Fire on my Target!
Get Back in the Fight! I can see being useful both on the frontline, to keep squads from running, but its good at your firebase as well, giving you an extra chance to catch fleeing squads before they leave the table.
Of the PCS orders, they really wont do much for your gunline.
First Rank, FIRE!, Second Rank, FIRE! wont help your heavy weapons.
Incomming! could be useful if the enemy is intent on destroying your firebase, but I think you're better of aggressively destroying the parts of his army capable of doing so.
Move! Move! Move! should only come into play if you need to reinforce your advancing platoon.
Luckily, the CCS can issue these orders as well
I think the PCS orders work best on infantry squads and the CCS orders on heavy weapon squads, generally speaking. Its also a matter of how many orders you can issue and how many you need for each element of the army, but the only way to figure that out is playtesting
There is always the option of fielding an extra CCS or dividing your squads into smaller platoons to get more PCS, if you end up using orders a lot.
As for the commissars, I'm sure you could do without them, but at some point an assault squad will reach you and then what are you going to do?
It might be helpful to have a stubborn 20 man unit with handy, to keep the enemy occupied while you move squads into position to blast them to pieces afterwards?
Originally Posted by Karmoon
I find for the points it's hard to get better than an autocannon. High RoF, high S, low cost. Since orders aren't likely to pass on HWS due to Ld7 and no vox, why bother with lascannons (which can fit in infantry squads with voxes). Autocannons don't need them.
Mortars would be fine to break up the monotony, a couple blasts here and there never hurt, and some HBs would be ok (I'd gladly sacrifice 1 shot to threaten armor and wound marines on a 2+), but stick lazorz in your infantry to benefit most from orders.
I will indeed expand. I take plasma for everything. Spam it. And as a result I tend to perform better than other guard armies that use other special weapons in my area. Just don't give them to sws as they will die pretty fast. Give them to your line infantry, cause you are taking no veterans. Granted, I give them to both my infantry and my veterans. I can fit in about 10 plasma guns at least in my standard list. Half only come from the veterans.Only special weapon I take. Trust me, even with the 5point increase from before, It is still a worthy special weapon in spite of what most people will say. They have saved me from terminators, MC, and other baddies on more occasions than I can recall. Somewhat like a fire extinguisher.
PS. They work well with lascannons. 2 of my Vet squads have 3 plasma guns and a lascannon and they cause a lot of hurt.
Last edited by Imperator100; September 2nd, 2009 at 09:49.