Seraphim or Celestians? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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View Poll Results: Seraphim or Celestians?

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  • Keep the List as is. No one needs those fancy 'angels'

    2 18.18%
  • Add the 6 gal Flamer with Melta bomb team

    7 63.64%
  • Get Inferno Pistols instead. No one needs anti horde

    2 18.18%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Temujin Khan's Avatar
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    Seraphim or Celestians?

    I was thinking that my army list was lacking in the Anti Numbers department. Sure I have Immolators and Chimeras... but they are generally the first to get shot up.

    i am thinking of trading the Canoness' gear for a Combi-Flamer and then a Celestian unit for 6 Seraphim with Melta Bombs, 2 Flamers and a VSS with a Brazier. The Seraphim would pretty much be a threat against anything non MC and provide my with the anti-ork fire power while keeping the anti Landraider.

    So here's my current list
    Canoness 66
    -Brazier of Holy Fire, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades

    3x 5 Celestians 519
    -2 Melta Guns
    Veteran Superior
    -Book of St. Lucius
    Immolator
    -Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

    10 Battle Sisters 145
    -2x Melta Guns, Veteran Superior with Book of St. Lucius

    Inducted Platoon 355
    Command Squad
    -Autocannon
    Chimera
    -Heavy Stubber, Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser
    2x Infantry Squads
    -Autocannon
    2x Chimera
    -Heavy Stubber, Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser

    5 Inquisitorial Storm Troopers 70
    -2x Melta Guns

    2x Exorcist 272
    -Searchlight

    Immolator 73
    -Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers


    What do you all think?
    -TK

    "My Word is Iron"
    "Show me your Friends, and I'll show you your Future"

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  3. #2
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    368 (x8)

    This seems like an army list section post, but anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temujin Khan View Post


    So here's my current list
    Canoness 66
    -Brazier of Holy Fire, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades

    S3 Power Weapon and 1 shot Flamers. What a waste of a Canoness. When did the traditional flying nun with an Eviscerator or Blessed Weapon become so underused? A CC Canoness would kill more than this one will, also give her a Book is she ever becomes a mistress of the assault phase.

    3x 5 Celestians 519
    -2 Melta Guns
    Veteran Superior
    -Book of St. Lucius
    Immolator
    -Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

    I think Celestians suck. You're taking them for the Immolator, when SoB in Rhinos with Flamer/HF do a way better anti-horde job than an Immolator. These units are small, don't score and have a useless CC rule.

    10 Battle Sisters 145
    -2x Melta Guns, Veteran Superior with Book of St. Lucius

    No transport? SoB on foot are SM that have figured out how to Martyr faster.

    Inducted Platoon 355
    Command Squad
    -Autocannon
    Chimera
    -Heavy Stubber, Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser
    2x Infantry Squads
    -Autocannon
    2x Chimera
    -Heavy Stubber, Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser

    No Heavy Stubbers on the Chimeras, it's a waste of points. Give your Platoons Grenade Launchers, half the price, protected, more useful. They even have the range if you're on the move. I'm not sure about your Squads though, Flamers say movement, Autocannons say stay put.

    5 Inquisitorial Storm Troopers 70
    -2x Melta Guns

    I'm guessing these go in an Immolator. That's a pretty interesting unit. It's better than your Celestian units, it's cheaper and they can score. They so the shooting job just as well, it seems ISTs outshine Celestians when they have the same transport.

    2x Exorcist 272
    -Searchlight

    Fine, I assume the Searchlights are because you were 2 points off.

    Immolator 73
    -Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

    Fine.
    You're actually hurting your ability to crush Orks with Celestians. SoB in a Rhino get more kills at the same range and ignore cover with 2 templates. They are more flexible and score. They also might not die after they disembark, where as you'd have to plan very carefully with the Celestians. I just see no advantage to them.

    I don't see Seraphim as a horde hunting unit, they're better in a small unit as tank hunters imo, but they're far more useful than Celestians.
    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Temujin Khan's Avatar
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    This is in this section because I want to know which unit will do better with my list surrounding it. I didn't intend for others to comment on the actual list. It's like all those other polls out there: "Should I take X or Y?"

    Although since you commented on my list, I'll guess I'll comment back. ^^

    I see my Canoness as an LD boost and 2 Faith. If she goes into combat, she often needs Faith to keep her going. I want to use my Faith for when I need to keep a unit fearless or keep them contesting an objective, while taking 9 Lascannon shots.

    The Celestians as they are set up are just as good as Dominions, but 4 points cheaper, better Faith, and a niffty combat perk. They are a cheap way to get two meltas into my list as well as a TL Heavy Flamer.

    The Battle Sisters go into a Chimera. I find it interesting you picked up on the Stormies going into the Immolator and missed this...

    For my Infantry Squads, they do stay put, and my Chimeras do move. One empty Chimera leads two transports straight towards the bad guys. If they get close (and they will) then a Heavy Flamer is good to have. The heavy Stubbers are there because I like them and they shoot 36." Which means if need be, I can send six shots 36" away.


    As for my original question, would Seraphim be a good addition to this list? If I were to include them, it would leave me with 8 meltas as well as 3 Autocannons and 2d6 S8 Ap1 shots. I only have a flamer on the Canoness and the Chimeras/Immolators. I was thinking that it would be better to have another unit with three flamers for those 'just in case' and clean up moments. They also have Melta Bombs to deal with any vehicles they find. Or should I keep my list as it is and go for more vehicles means less die?

    "My Word is Iron"
    "Show me your Friends, and I'll show you your Future"

  5. #4
    Senior Member Spiney Norman's Avatar
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    Seraphim are always a good addition to a WH army, though you might want to look at your proposed set up. Melta bombs are expensive and overrated IMHO when its usually just as effective to assault normally with hand of the emperor, I would run them 8 strong and give the VSS an eviscerator and book.

    The rest of the army is pretty good, the only thing that concerns me slightly is what the heck is the canoness going to be doing without the celestians to boss around? I mean about the only place left to put her is with the ISTs.

    The effective canoness build is Jump pack, eviscerator, cloak of St Aspira, maybe if you tweak a few things around you could fit her in.
    The art of Eldar: Paint clean, play dirty!

  6. #5
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    Yeah I never put Melta Bombs on anything, they're easy to nullify. I agree with the effectiveness Canoness build, I personally like to give her an Inferno Pistol in bigger games, it surprises people.
    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Temujin Khan's Avatar
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    ..... OR I could just dump the Seraphim all together and get me 2 canonesses. One with a BW one with a Eviserator. Gives me more faith and gets my some cc punch.

    Can jetpacked Canonesses ride in a transport? I can't find anything that says they can't...

    "My Word is Iron"
    "Show me your Friends, and I'll show you your Future"

  8. #7
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    That's a dam good question.....I can't find anything either. You can always just hop her behind tanks, keep her based low and she can't be seen. Remember arms and banners don't count.
    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
    Like to talk Warhammer or want some advice on Armies or Tactics? Drop me a PM!

  9. #8
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Just a reminder: Don't forget to put closing dates on all your polls.
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  10. #9
    3 Getrudes Frank Fugger's Avatar
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    Jump Infantry can't board vehicles; it says so in the BRB, page 66.

    If you want anti-horde then Immolators and Guard can give you that; you've just got to be willing to give up the Exorcists, otherwise you'll never be able to fit enough of them in. If you want to keep the Exorcists you're better off going for a hybrid list, with lots of Guardsmen to sit in the backfield with the Exorcists and Autocannons to provide long-range shooting and 4 or 5 mounted units to rove forward. Drop the HS Immolator and use the Platoon's Chimeras to ferry your ISTs around in.

  11. #10
    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fugger View Post
    Jump Infantry can't board vehicles; it says so in the BRB, page 66.

    If you want anti-horde then Immolators and Guard can give you that; you've just got to be willing to give up the Exorcists, otherwise you'll never be able to fit enough of them in. If you want to keep the Exorcists you're better off going for a hybrid list, with lots of Guardsmen to sit in the backfield with the Exorcists and Autocannons to provide long-range shooting and 4 or 5 mounted units to rove forward. Drop the HS Immolator and use the Platoon's Chimeras to ferry your ISTs around in.
    If you really wanted some Anti-horde, why not go all out and get a squad of dominions fitted with 4 flamers and mount them in an immolator? It's 5 templates. Personally, I swear by Seras, but I also play footsloggers.

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