Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Marneus Augustus Calgar
Why does he suck so badly on the table.
I found that his war gears tends not to work with him.
Given his Iron halo, the Armour of Antilochus does not improve his saves except against AP3+ weapons and non power wielding enemies in close combat. The teleporter homer may be useful, but given his high points, there wouldn’t be much teleport capable things able to teleport to him. The terminator armour also prevents him from taking cheaper transports as well - slowing him down.
His special rules can be useful in being able to choose to pass or fail morale. BUT! It is not a chapter tactics, and thus if you have another named character in your army with chapter tactics, this rule is lost. Also SM have already high LD, the benefit is minimal given that choosing to fail is already available via they shall know no fear.
The benefit of power fists are really insta killing T4 muti wound enemies but it is hard to get his points worth back as there generally is not that much T4 muti wound enemies on the table, getting over to them, is another issue, any cybork PK warboss, MCs will hold him up. Kharn, Lysander, Abaddon, Ghazghkull, demon princes, Ctans can easily give Calgar a run for his money.
The ability to reroll any to wounds is again marginal use. For the pair of storm bolter and the powersword, it is useful, but for the fists, it is not really. And i think, having 2 fists on him defines his purpose. For the bolter and power sword, reroll to wound will increase his wounds against T4 from 0.5 to 0.75, which is a 50% increase. up until T6 the powerfist to wound will be from 5/6 = 0.833 to 5/6+(1/6*5/6) = 0.97 for a 17% increase. For T7, will be from 4/6 =0.66 to 4/6+(2/6*4/6) = 0.88 for a 33% increase, while T8 will give a 50% increase. How many things are T6 or more, and in those cases, how many things have only armour which the P fist can ignore? The thing is, with things at ~T8, their weapon skill plays much more a role and often these things tots things which are much scarier than 2 power fist that strikes last – like demon swords, warscyths, thunder hammers, Nemesis weapons etc.
So what if Calgar got himself tangled up with a typical not so much power weapon bunch of 29 boyz plus power klaw, boss pole nobz – similar points. Assuming Calgar is charging uses his power sword, 5 attacks. 5/6 hits, 3/6 wounds, no armour saves. = 5 X 5/6 X 3/6 = 2.08 boyz dead, round down. 27 Boyz strike back 3 times each with 3/6 his, 2/6 wounds, 1/6 thorugh armour = 27 X 3 X 3/6 X 2/6 X 1/6 = 2.25 wounds on calgar, nobz stikes back with 3 attack, 3/6 hits, 5/6 wounds, 3/6 through iron halo = 3 X3/6X5/6X3/6 = 1.25 wounds, at this point, Calgar would have lost either 3 or 4 wounds. Eternal warrior keeps him alive, losses combat his special rule allow him to stay and fight, he will most likely be dead in the next round of combat.
And if Calgar used his fists instead? 29 boys will create 2.42 wounds, nob, another 1.25 while calgar will kill 4.2 boyz. And the orks did not charge! Still dies next turn. So what about other lesser close combat squads like, striking scorpions, Khorne bezerkers or even assault marines. I think we don’t need a mathhammer to know the TH/SS terminators, or just normal terminators, banshees, possessed will cause Calgar some major grief,
The weaker assault marines, 1 serge power fist, storm shield + 9 marines, pistol chain sword. Roughly similar points to calgar. If calgar charges with power sword, 5 attacks 4/6 hits, 3/6 wounds, no save, = 1.66 wounds, 7 marines hit back with 2 attach each, 3/6 hits, 3/6 wounds, 1/6 through armour = 0.25 wounds, sergeant does 2 attacks, 3/6 hit, 5/6 wounds, 3/6 through invurn, for 0.42 wounds, so possibly 1 wound round up from the assault marine squad. This if calgar continues to pick off 2 marines per turn, it will end up after 4 turns between his power fists vs the storm shield, and the sergeants’ power fist against his iron halo given the they shall know no fear rule. Not that good effective to use such an expensive character, and not how most people will want to use the jewel of their army in a 5-7 turns game.
This post really is about how if Calgar is to be useful, he should be fighting low medium enemy troop choices like marine squads, nobz, crisis suits, then he may break even – if he can get to them. If not, he is pretty inefficient against light infantry, mediocre against heavy infantry, great against vanilla HQ and crap against uber CC monsters – all of which he can’t really get his points back. Now only if his power fist ignores invurnable saves, or reduces it. Alternatively if his power fist allows reroll to hit – then he means business.
Last edited by lezt; September 17th, 2009 at 17:42.
You've got a bunch of errors in there:
The ability to fail morale tests intentionally is part of chapter tactics, not ATSKNF, meaning that you lose it if you take another unique character.
Secondly, calgar has a seperate ability under his statline that allows him to reroll all attacks to hit and to wound, both in melee and at ranged.
Thus calgar assaulting a space marine squad will shoot twice, with a 1/3 chance of missing with one of his two shots. He then rerolls that shot. So two shots likely hit, they wound 50% so on average will get I believe 1.50 wounds after the reroll. Basically you've got two dead marines.
He then assaults into melee. He hits on threes, For 4.6 wounds. He rerolls those up to about 3.5 wounds. So six of the ten man squad is dead on his assault phase. Not too bad.
If you instead chose to assault with his fisto, you end up with 5.2 hits, essentially all wounds, killing five of them but allowing them to swing first.
Now I'm not saying Calgar is good, as a choice I'd only take him in an apocolypse game, because there at least he has some good datasheets etc.
Also, you should keep in mind that no independant character does all that much better at assaulting.
Vulkan, heavy flamers say... 4 marines. Wounds 3 of them. One in three makes the save.
He assaults, swings four times. Hits 2.6, rerolls up to about 3 with his mastercraft. Wounds about 3 when you take into account his digital weapons.
The remaining 6 memebers of the other squad attack back, dealing a bit less damage because he has better saves. However, Vulkan after the initial charge, will still kill a MAX of three marines per turn, thus having him assault a tactical squad by himself, it will take a minimum of three assault phases to kill them all, assuming they don't run. Vulkan also dies if he ever fails one of the two 3+ invulnerable saves that hit him every turn, which he will statistically do by the end of the second assault phase.
As for the boys? 30 boys takes vulkan the entire game to kill, perhaps a little less if he does better than average. And vulkan/Lysander are considered to be the best of the unique characters for straight personal power.
Basically, Calgar requires the same thing that every independant character should have, more troops. Despite the flavor of 40k you should never be running a single model independant character against any squad of competant troops and expecting them to win just because their points are roughly equivilent.
Last edited by Caros; September 17th, 2009 at 18:12.
thanks for the comments,
i am wondering where you got the rule where he can reroll to hit?
his titanic might rule: Calgar can reroll all failed attempts to wound with shooting and CC attacks.
it does not say he can reroll to hit.
the reason why i took calgar alone against the boyz and the marines is because the point cost is roughly similar to the entire troop. Calgar cost a little more than mid 200s points if you take vulkan, you can still have thre quaters of a hundred pt left to fill in the points gap. i think you agree that vulkan plus 2 honor guard does much better than calgar alone? -> athough technically it is not a legal setup.
the shooting aspect is, again, very subjective. like if an IC is walking 48" towards 10 lootas, or 5 ML devs. he will be dispatched relatively easily. thus in your case, you have already defined Calgar to be within assault range, you never know what an odd plasma shot can do, etc that is why i didn't include shooting. or the additional cost associated with transports to get him into a position to shoot and assault.
That block of text offends my eyes. He's to expensive for being underwhelming in CC and shooting. The reliable Ld tricks is MAYBE worth it in 2000 but it's not as amazing as some people think.
As said he is mostly to expensive with is one and only good use being in an all footslogging list in which his leadership trick is put to the most use and only at 2k plus points as he is a good chunk of points and needs lots of squads to gain from his ability. Otherwise he is just a replacement power fist sergeant for a unit or two.
- You must set fire to water or you will be extinguished.
...my last game he himself killed about twice his point cost and escorted a unit of TH Termies off the board... It was my poor rolling, I give you that, but I was avoiding the guy for the rest of the game. If you can get him into CC quickly, he is OK, I would just hate to see him walk/stay in reserve for half the game and do nothing...
Any way to get him into CC fast can be blown up and unless you DS him with a huge Termie unit they're going to take huge casualties. To risky for my taste.
I'd also like to point out that theoryhammering Calgar versus a full Boyz squad with a PK Nob is kind of lopsided. If I was an independent character - even one with Eternal Warrior - a thirty-man Ork squad with a power klaw nob is about the last thing I would want to be in melee with. You're essentially pitting Calgar against a Fearless thirty-one wound model armed with a weapon designed to kill independent characters.
The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.
Come, sons of LO! Kneel before Poodle!
Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."