Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
My friend has just sold his dignity and bought Space Wolves*, and I'm hoping to teach him a lesson with my vanilla marines but unfortunately he's a bit of a Mathshammer whizz so he thinks he's won already!
Any advice from other vanilla marine players out there on a good core to hold back the Grey hoards? I'm thinking Vindicators and Plasma Cannons...where next after that?
Any help much appreciated, I'm a bit new to Marines, as you may be able to tell..!
*come on, they are just a tad beardy...!
What I beleive will happen is that your friend will look across the list and find the most powerful combat units his list posesses. As space wolves are opposed to teleportation this means he's most likely to try and do a rhino rush (with a raider or two for his wolf guard).
Load up on big guns and hit his transports right off the bat; then hit his men while their inferior numbers try to slog down the table to get at you.
The Emperor Protects
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
I suggest loading up on Sternguard (for the AP3 goodness against most of his army). You'll also need a good way to get him out of his transports, so bikes/speeders are a good pick. Maybe alpha striking scout squads with melta bombs, or a dread with the 2 twin linked autocannons. (both of which I've used to good effect in the past) It's also worth looking at adding in a sniper team with Tellion, for picking off the badass in his army.
Adding in a vindicator or two is definitely a good choice, both for the bang and to give him something to shoot at. Plasma will probably be a good choice, though adding in a lot of it might not be the most cost effective way to go about it.
I would suggest heavy stuff early on to pop his transports, lascannons and the like, and drop pods for later to come down behind enemy lines and deal with the inevitable long fangs. Sternguard and Predators are probably useful for this. Bikers can outflank a lot of what they'll bring out you. You'll probably want to find out what HQ he's running. If he's bringing a Rune Priest, figure out what psychic powers he's bringing. A lot of them will be moderatly dangerous, and you can develop counters for them. If he's not, then that's one less thing to deal with.
If he decides to run quick stuff (bikes, jump packs), sternguard can handle them too, as their AP3 stuff will keep them down.
Also, if you can find a balance, you might wanna run some smaller bait units for Blood Claws and the like so you can line up your shots better, though that might be a bit tougher to pull off. If long fangs aren't a problem, I'd suggest a vindicator. big plate AP2 will do a lot of good in a lot of situations.
I think that a Bike list will be very good at holding off space wolves. The Bikers will ensure that you are just as or more maneuverable then them. The Sternguard as mentioned earlier are amazing at killing everything so take them. In fact if you have Pedro in your list and a captain on a Bike them every unit in your army will be scoring. Think of the look you'll get when 3 Sternguard Squads are protecting your half and the 4 full bike squads are all racing down the fireld to get his objectives.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
What points will you be playing at? If its low, like 1500, that will change your tactics to more of a specialty, whereas at 2500 or so you could do a biker sternguard army.
You're on the right track with the AP2 because I don't see Wolf armies being meched up much; Terminator and Cavalry-fests perhaps, which means cheap transport vehicles will be the bane of his existence. Most of his second-turn armour-smashing power comes in the form of CC weapons (Rending attacks, Chainfists, etc etc mounted on fast-moving or hard-wearing models), which means he's going to struggle to take out even Rhinos with shooting alone and thus will have to charge them; and in so doing, will expose his units to an extra turn of shooting.Any advice from other vanilla marine players out there on a good core to hold back the Grey hoards? I'm thinking Vindicators and Plasma Cannons...where next after that?
Some sort of Psyker defence would also be an idea, preferably an Allied Inquisitor Lord (not an Elite, you need the full Ld10 ) with a PsyHood. You need that because if he brings Rune Priests with Living Lightning he can pound your Rhinos with D6 Autocannon shots right from the get-go even as he's advancing, and that sucks because although it's not terribly likely he'll destroy the vehicles it has a fair chance of stopping you shooting out of them. Librarians don't cut it because their Hoods are only 24" in range; the Inquisition Hoods are unlimited. You might take a DH Lord with some Mystics in case he tries to run a Pod list, but if he does that against a mech Smurf army he's failed it.
Assault units of your own to tie up the Cavalry and Terminators as they run across the board might be useful too. Your TH/SS Terminators are a LOT cheaper than his but hit just as hard, so try throwing a unit of those in there for funsies. If his Thunderwolves aren't wearing Storm Shields of their own they'll likely get eaten alive; and even if they are they'll still end up tied up. They NEED to be dedicated assault units (TH/ SS Termies, Command Squad Of Doom, SS/ power weapon Vanguard) though; throw a Tactical Squad at him and it'll get stomped, and Dreads won't work because he'll likely have a lot of Thunder Hammers and Chainfists.
Take advantage of his Leadership. His basic Troops are Ld8, so forcing lots of Ld tests wherever you can is a good idea.
If he mechs up or Pods up he's onto a loser, because vanilla Marines do both of these things better than Wolves.
Erm... try making fun of his haircut or something too. And don't roll 1's.They're really, really not*come on, they are just a tad beardy...!
Its worth pointing out that you can take an inquisitor and the henchmen that increase his leadership to get the leadership 10 psychic hood without buying the more expensive lord. If you are so inclined. =)
Stick with the Lord unless you REALLY need the HQ slot
My answer is TH/SS assault termies. They're a great deterant against assaulty armies. Get a squad of 10 and combat squad them. Then get 3 cheap vindicators. For their costs, vindie's are one of the best vehicles.
For your troops just get a whole bunch of tactical squads with missile launchers or lascannons (and meltaguns) to take down enemy armor. If you can afford vehicles, put them in rhinos or razorbacks.
Instead of an Inq Lord, get a Grey Knight Brother Captain w/Psychic Hood. Stick him with one of your tact squads and he becomes highly survivable as well as a close-combat threat if anyone should assault your squad.