Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm trying to write a new list that I like for Space Wolves and I can't figure out how to use Wolf Guard. The rules for them have been written terrably in my opinion and i can't under stand the legal way to use them. I know how i weant to use them but don't know how i'm alowed to. I see two ways that I think that the wording suggests.
1. You create a squad of Wolf Guard as normal. After the Squad is created you then can pick out members of that squad and assine them to the diffrent squads to lead. This can be any member (You can grab a Heavy weapon). Your origional Squad of Wolf guard and other squads in the army must be legel before you switch around members.
Benifits, This would alow you to change who is leading witch squad inbetween games in a tournament setting as you are not changing your list. You could get a Wolf Guard squad of only one model as all others have been assigned.
Downside, You can't get the second assult weapon for squads and get them in a rhino or Drop Pod as this will make the squad 11 members strong. You can't attack them to skyclaws or swift claws unless you have a Wolf Guard squad that is equiped with bikes. You may waste a Elite slot that is beign used as filler to have Pack Leaders.
2. Create squads with the Wolf guard as a permenate mamber of the squad. While creating Packs you create them with the knowledge that they will have a Wolf Guard.
Benifits, You can have the 2nd Assult Weapon as the rules state that you must have 10 "models in the squad", and the Wolf Guard is a model in the squad. You can attack models to Swiftclaws and Skyclaws as you are choosing their wargear with the squad they are going to be attached to in mind. Every squad that gets a wolf guard can have a heavy weapon as he only has to count the models in his squad of Grey hunters for example. Don't have to use up an elite slot just to have Wolf Guard.
Downside, Can't switch between battles in a Tournament because it will change your list. Wolf Guard can't be like lone wolves and must have atleast * models.
What do you guys think. So far these are the only options that i can think of. Any one else see this as a diffrent way.
Last edited by Willance; October 11th, 2009 at 18:28. Reason: clarification
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
I don't have the codex space wolf, so i can't comment extensively on this topic.
However i think that ,when making a list you should make your squads to fulfill a specific function (while still keeping a sense of balance with the rest of your forces). So regardless, I'd believe the best option for space wolf players is to choose Wolf guards equipment either as a squad in it self or as leader type models of other units. Upgrading them as a quasi-unit that can be dissolved as a consequence of whatever army you're facing, while i believe is technically legal, sounds too troublesome to balance effectively.
Why i believe your first statement is legal: Again since i don't have the codex i can't comment on the minutia involved: But if they are assigned in the same fashion as a run of the mill HQ; Then there is nothing to prevent you from switching Wolf guard around in the same manner as a HQ can be join different units in between games (Though i doubt they can leave a unit mid-game). HQs aren't bought with specific unit entries, In fact its an entry by it self.
Since the Wolf guard are bought as a unit, and since they are deployed as such , there is no reason that they could not remain a unit. You don't have to tell your opponent what joins who prior to the deployment... Unless specified elsewhere of course.
"The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
-Anaxagoras of Clazomenae
i dont have the new codex but in my humble oppinion i think your best of tailoring them to fit GH/BC etc or as a unit on there ownor both if you feel inclined that way personally i think there one of the best units in the game so customizable , ye sthey can be expensive but they can be pretty cheap toif you wanted them to be and if the squad cap is still twenty that could be very very nice big im gonna squish your face in squad
my 2 pence worth
i rock my world
I'm not asking for an opinion on how best to use them. I know what i want to do. I'm asking for an interpritation of the rules on how i can use them.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
Your wolf guard squad takes up an elites choice no matter what. so you could have a 5-man squad of wolf guard, but then assign every wolf guard model to a squad, so there is n actual "squad" on the table anymore, just scattered wolf guard in different units.
They stay with that unit for the rest of the game. Also, you assign WG BEFORE THE GAME STARTS, meaning they don't count towards squad size. you would have to have 10 grey hunters if you wanted the second special weapon, and THEN assign a WG to that unit (so no rhino or drop pod)
However, you can still buy a transport for a 10-strong unit, don't put the unit in it when you deploy, attatch a WG before the game starts, and have a free transport rolling around.
Hope this clears things up. you could have a squad of WG running around, or have some (or all) join different units.
I couldn't think of anything funny, smart, or witty to say, so I said this.
I don't see what's so difficult to understand about it; you create a Wolf Guard unit, members of that Wolf Guard unit can be removed from that unit and attached to other units as leaders. They basically function as Sergeants, raising the Ld of Grey Hunters and Blood Claws to 9 and bringing wargear (as well as removing the BC's Headstrong rule).
I don't see the dilemma. It is spelled out in the Codex, in plain English nonetheless.This means two things:Originally Posted by Codex: Space Wolves, Page 86
1) You assign Wolf Guard Pack Leaders after the list is designed, but before the battle begins.
2) Your list must be legal after assigning Wolf Guard Pack Leaders.
Point number 1 is amazing! Coupled with the option of having up to four HQ choices, you could design a very flexible army list for tournament settings, where you will be forced to play multiple battles with the same list.
Point number 2 is where it becomes complicated. There are many situations where a unit's legality is questionable.. For an easy example:
Wolf Guard [ 312 ]
+ 9x Wolf Guard, Storm Bolter
+ 1x Power Weapon, 1x Power Fist
+ Wolf Guard Pack Leader (Long Fangs), Terminator Armour, Cyclone Missile Launcher
+ Rhino, Dozer Blade
The Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour is intended to be added to a Long Fang pack, but it is questionable whether the unit is allowed to contain both a Rhino and Terminator Armour, as Termies cannot embark within Rhinos.
Another example would be designing a pack with 8x Wolf Guard, two of which are intended to be Pack Leaders, and a Razorback.
Disclaimer: I think both above examples are legal, as per the wording of the Codex doesn't stipulate the inclusion of a transport by the number of models in a squad, or their wargear. I only wrote them up as an example of what might be confusing when designing lists with Wolf Guard and Pack Leaders.
Last edited by BossGorestompa; October 11th, 2009 at 21:13.
I've recently become a fan of this thing called Dubstep. And you should too.
Datsik & Flux Pavillion - Crunch (Youtube)
Da Moo Kowz is da drinkinest Orks of dem all!
i had a similar question to you, i wanted to attach 2 wolf guard to squads whilst the rest of the squad entered play by drop pod, it seems to be a general concensus that the wolf guard can have any equipment they like because they are attache units, what i mean by this is that you could have any options you want in a unit of wolf guard as long as they follow the options menu and squad cap.
eg: a ten wolf guard squad comprised of
3 terminator armoured
2 jumppack equipped
1 bike equipped
3 power armoured
however this unit could not deploy together, the jump pack and bike WG are jump infantry etc. and as such cannot be in cohesion with a unit of infantry type.
hope this helps
They could also buy themselves a transport even though they'd have to attach alot of members to actually use it.
As BossGoreStompa said the wording is clear, #1 apply.
As for transport : you are permitted from taking the dedicated transport option and since there is no quantities (or even type) restrictions, you are allowed it, if that was unintended it will be FAQed in time, but for the time being 10 Terminators Wolf Guards can select a Razorback as their dedicated transport, they just can't use it.
As for multiple unit types : Nothing appears to disallow it, or even to field it, but you would have to take the restrictions of all types still in the squad in mind (IE : Infantry move speed, terrain tests as normal, no turbo boosting and cannot embark transport). In similar if lesser case in the same codexis the Fenrisian/Cyber Wolves, they are beasts and yet they can form units with specific characters. Until proven othewise the unit would have to be considered as fieldable, however no ICs could join it as it would count as an Infantry, Bike AND Jump Pack squad depending on situations.... and legally ICs can only join squads that match their type.... Wierd case, nonetheless.
This codex is giving rise tosome hilarious stuff (be it the whining or irregularities.), i gues i'm easy to amuse when sick. ;P