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  1. #1
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Longfangs: What's the point?

    Alright, so I had a quick glance at the Space Wolf codex the other day, and wanted to get a forum consensus on something (as well as make sure I read it correctly).

    Now as I understand it, Longfangs can only be about 7 guys big, but ALL must have some kind of special weapon right? So NO redshirts of any kind?

    What I wanted to ask was will anyone be taking them because of this? Why would I pay all those points if the very first bolter shell that causes a casualty will cost me my special weapons. Anyone tried them? Are they worth taking for the one or two turns you get to use them before the enemy wipes them out? Or, have you found ways of keeping the enemy occupied? (Like the scouts or something)

    I am mostly asking because I LOVE the idea of them being able to split fire, but, I don't want to invest in a unit that won't live to see turn three.

    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

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    Member SirBludgen's Avatar
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    The max unit size for long fangs is 6, which ends up with your veteran and 5 heavy weapons people. and they are relatively cheap actually. in a 1500 point game two squads with 4 missile launchers and a plasma cannon only take a fifth of your points. They are really worth their points I think. Being able to lay down anti-tank and anti-troop fire is awesome
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    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Right, but with no redshirts to take the extra wounds, it only takes one wandering Heavy Bolter to take out a special weapon trooper, say about 30-45 points worth. Or do you simply consider this to be a downside to taking Longfangs?
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  5. #4
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    I have the same problem with them, they might be cheaper and all, but it is not hard to imagine a whole squad going away in turn number 1 to enemy power. At the end, these are 45pts (not exactly sure of the cost without the book here) Marines with big guns that die just easily as 15pts Marines, only their loss is more devastating... I think that regular Devs are better, since they can also combat squad now and target to separate units that way, with one of them having the benefit of a Sarge with them... Unless I am missing something?

  6. #5
    3 Getrudes Frank Fugger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotspike18 View Post
    Now as I understand it, Longfangs can only be about 7 guys big, but ALL must have some kind of special weapon right? So NO redshirts of any kind?
    The Squad Leader can't have a Heavy weapon, but since the Squad Leader being alive allows them to split fire between two targets there are no redshirts.

    What I wanted to ask was will anyone be taking them because of this? Why would I pay all those points if the very first bolter shell that causes a casualty will cost me my special weapons. Anyone tried them? Are they worth taking for the one or two turns you get to use them before the enemy wipes them out? Or, have you found ways of keeping the enemy occupied? (Like the scouts or something)

    I am mostly asking because I LOVE the idea of them being able to split fire, but, I don't want to invest in a unit that won't live to see turn three.
    Way I see it your opponent is going to be far too busy worrying about the rest of your list to have time to take out the Long Fangs, because stuff like Thunderwolf Cav and Wolf Guard Termies are far more destructive. I think that was the idea behind the LF's low cost and the lack of ablative wounds in the unit. I'm taking them; 3 squads to be precise, because for 90pts I get 3 Missile Launchers that can split fire.

  7. #6
    Senior Member grantneodude's Avatar
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    Stick a Wolf Guard with Termie armor in there, and maybe one of your HQ's that you've outfitted to run with them. That bring them up to 8 models two of which can have a 2+ armor/3+ invuln if you want. You drop the low AP shots on the guys with an invuln, and the rest around the area. Since it says you can split the fire of the whole unit just by stopping "sgt." from firing, you can also split those two into one of the two groups.

    I see them as being awesome, especially DPed with Grimnar and shooting up some tanks, and infantry on the first turn. Also scouts can very easily distract the enemy from them, as can wolves, thunderwolves, and even GH or BC can provide a nice distraction.
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    Senior Member DogofWar1's Avatar
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    I will probably be using them, specifically I plan to use 2 such units in a 1500 point army. Everyone I play has some sort of ruins / terrain fetish so there's always lots of cover around to place them in, which makes them tougher to kill. Furthermore I have troops defending them (8 man units of Grey Hunters w/ powerfists), so anything that gets close has to get through them first.

    And beyond that, I have a few drop pods in the army, meaning I'll be bringing down other juicy targets for my opponent (though entirely opn my own terms).

    So yeah, theoretically they could be killed by a determined opponent without too much difficulty, but considering the way I load them up (3 MLs, 1 LC, and 1 PC) i'm not too worried about one or two of them, because I can just drop a krak missile or two, and still have somewhere around 5 of them (+ everything else).

    Mainly, the biggest problem for me would be a drop pod or deepstriking army, but all things considered I'm thinking I'll run into those less than a mech army, so having a couple of these guys to wreck vehicles then infantry makes my life a hell of a lot easier.
    ----------
    Forgot to mention, there's a lot of talk about Devastators vs. Long Fangs. For me the lowered cost of weapons for the unit makes it better. Furthermore fire control helps you to take on two targets without having to buy 10 guys. Being able to kit out your longfangs for less than the cost of 10 guys BEFORE heavy weapons is very appetizing, even if you have fewer redshirts (techinically none, but as I said earlier, my ML guys are more or less redshirts simply by virtue of me having an insane number of MLs in my army).

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    Quote Originally Posted by grantneodude View Post
    Stick a Wolf Guard with Termie armor in there, and maybe one of your HQ's that you've outfitted to run with them. That bring them up to 8 models two of which can have a 2+ armor/3+ invuln if you want. You drop the low AP shots on the guys with an invuln, and the rest around the area. Since it says you can split the fire of the whole unit just by stopping "sgt." from firing, you can also split those two into one of the two groups.

    I see them as being awesome, especially DPed with Grimnar and shooting up some tanks, and infantry on the first turn. Also scouts can very easily distract the enemy from them, as can wolves, thunderwolves, and even GH or BC can provide a nice distraction.
    I will further add to that that the wolf guard termie to you bring with a storm shield you can instead do a storm bolter rather than a thunder hammer (space wolves do not buy them as pairs) can also bring with him a cyclone missile launcher which for SW is Heavy 2.

    My longfangs are 2 las, 2 heavy bolters, 1 ML, leader and then attach WG with Cyclone and storm shield. SPlit fire las for tanks, bolter for troops, and the missiles as wildcards depending on threats and opportunities. If I really want to be evil, attach Grimnar to make them all relentless or tank hunters.

    All of those fit into a single drop pod for optimal placement. Grimnar can then break off to join a unit that advances up the field to get knee deep in blood.

    Last sick thing I am trying to find out is what are wolf guard considered when they join a unit. Grimnar makes them troops if you want, can they hold a point if attached to a non-troop unit as the 5th ed rules due not require the majority of a unit alive to hold points?
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  10. #9
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    There are no redshirts, but the unit being so cheap is good enough. 5 with 4 missile launcher costs half of what a similarly equipped Devastator Squad does, so you can simply field 2 units for twice the firepower. One bad turn can see them gone, but who cares when you can just have more models on the field?

    Long Fangs >>> Devastators

    You can add a WG, but don't trick him out. Instead of buying some stupid pimp WG, you can almost get a whole new unit of Fangs. 18 point meatshield is all you need.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member grantneodude's Avatar
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    Grimnar makes Wolf Guard "units" count as troops not models. I would say this means they are only troops when it's just WG in the unit, and they take up a troop slot instead of Elite.

    For the WG I would go with SS/Storm Bolter I think. Not too points heavy at that loadout, and you get a nice storm bolter to add into any troops you shoot at, as well as the really nice 3++ save.
    Last edited by grantneodude; October 14th, 2009 at 23:48.
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