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Iíve been writing up a mech list and everyone keeps suggesting that I should take airborne units, plus I went to a competitive tourney recently and there wasnít a single guard army that didnít have a Valkyire!
Are they really that effective and essential for a competitive guard army?
I ask this because My Conversion Theme for my guard army makes it very difficult to feature a high tech drop ship like the Valkyire, and I canít use any non GW models. Iíve got an idea for a conversion that could work but it would require a lot of time and effort, all of which I donít want to waste if it isnít worth it. Which is why Iím asking this question?
Also for those of you who want to know, here is my 1500pt mech listÖ
- Command: 3X Meltas, Chimera: ML & HF
- X4 Veteran Squad: 3X Melta, Chimera: ML & HF
- X2 Banewolves
- Leman Russ: Plasma Sponsons
I love Vendettas, though I have to admit they are a bit cheaty. For 130 points you get 3 twin-linked lascannons that can:
- move 6 inches and still shoot
- make 24 inches scout move (!)
- carry 12 models
- if it can't shoot for some reason, move 13 to 24 inches and get 4+ cover for the next turn
And it has extra armor and searchlight and 12-12-10 armor value which is not so bad at all.
Valkyrie is nearly the same except of being targeted on mass-infantry. 110-point Valk has multi-laser and 2 heavy bolters, and 2 stupid str8 AP 3 one shot ordnance rockets. For 30 points you get them replaced with 2 str4 pieplates. That is good thing for its point cost, and it is great for contesting or scoring objectives on the last turn.
But as for your list, I do not think you need them, really. You run 5 Chimeras and pretty good artillery support. Taking flyers means occupying fast attack slot for each (I don't believe in squadrons here) and raising transport costs at least twice. This will obviosly make you low number of vehicles, which seems bad idea to me. Your list is ballanced, I don't think it could be made better this way.
"...But the rest of the cows and market analysts call them mad. Well, twenty-three zillion bacteria said the same thing a hundred million years ago. And guess where they are today? They're still bacteria!" (c)
Really, Helga covered everything.
Vendettas and Valkyries are just so damn good for their price, they're a bloody steal. No other unit in the army gives you as much as these two units do for their points and that's the reason why everyone is blaring "TAKE A DAMN VENDETTA/VALKYRIE"
Are they necessary? No.
Are they dead useful to the point of being in almost every list? Yes.
Your army would work fine without either plane and adding them by sacrificing other units just mitigates their effectiveness by reducing either body count or vehicle count.
Arguably some people may suggest just dropping your Banewolves for the Valkyrie, but they both serve the same role, the simple difference is that the Valkyrie can drag units around and the Wolves are just better at killing infantry all around.
I myself wouldn't go about exchanging though; your Wolves are only slightly more threatening than Chimeltas, but as soon as you take a Valkyrie, every anti AV 12 gun will be pointed at the damn thing to take it out of the sky. Granted, it would take heat off your other high priority AV 12 targets, the Basilisk and the Manticore, but you can always hide those guys behind something, like a Chimera.
And, in my opinion theme and aesthetics always outweighs effectiveness anyway.
To be honest, if there's a unit to switch out in your army, it'd be the basilisk; I'd roll with another russ or griffons or hydras instead of the workhorse. She's good, but she's taken a hit with that huge minimum range.
However, if you decide to scale up, a Vendetta or Valkyrie wouldn't be a bad idea; then again they're almost never a bad idea.
To keep it lowtech, you could always go through the horrendous process of scratch building a HinD style helicopter or something.
But meh, whatever you do, keep it grot.
I don't use fliers...but I do take nine chimeras, two griffons, and four russes in 1750 point games...
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
It has been scientifically proven impossible to win a game without Vendettas.
I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ
And yet i don't use any and win more than half my games against relatively evenly matched oponents. I think your "scientific" proof is faulty. ;P
They are good and pretty damn cheap, yes. Neccessarry? hell no. They don't fit my fluff (and my desire to cram hell hounds in those fast attack slots) so i don't take them.
They ARE good, but they are not the emperor himself descending from the golden throne. Personally, I have found sentinels to be more effective overall. For 20 more points, you get to split those lascannons between three vehicles, which means that one crew shaken won't ruin your whole AT. They are not necessary by a long-shot, but still rather good.
Sorry, you are all wrong. Vendettas must be taken in order to win. It's science. Let me show you how this scientific process works:
Step 1 - Vendetta
Step 2 - Success!
My logic is undeniable.
I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ
First off, your army concept and execution are inspiring. Great work. The guard and greenie bitz mesh wonderfully.
I have a limited number of games under my belt in this edition, but it's safe to say that valks and vendettas are not related to successful lists like vegetables are to healthy diets. You can definitely go to war without them. The redundancy of your list denies the enemy the opportunity to knock out our army's effectiveness with a few shots.
While the flyers are definitely a lot of bang for their points, they are instantly high profile targets due to either their mobility (with scoring units) or firepower.
I'm building two valkyries because the models are so damn cool and it fits with my long-held backstory. But I laud your resistance to trends.
Last edited by Rhoaran; November 11th, 2009 at 04:36.
"...and thee shall know the Emperor's might when thy enemies fall before thy guns. No crude Orkish blade can pierce thy anointed armor, nor any twisted alien resist the sting of thy sword." ~Major Kaelen Rhodes
I don't use Valkyries or Vendettas either and I haven't had a problem. A lot of the time I do miss the long-range firepower that they boast, but if you play cards right, chimeras, russes, and sentinels really get the job done. If you are having trouble with transports at range, Hydras or autocannon platoons work wonders.
Are they nice to have? Hell yes! Are they a god-send? Eh, not really.