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I was thinking about listing the way 4th ed impacts the guard here and what we can do about it. WARNING LONG POST.
Firstly I am of the opinion that Guard have been nerfed at least a little by these new rules, HOWEVER, I would be very surprised to find anyone here who played guard because they were beardy l33t death troops of doom. Oh no those kinds of people you find in some chaos forums or maybe Space wolves or other elite armies. We play guard because they are cool, and they look like proper armies should with lots of guys and normal looking tanks, or for other fluff reasons. Yes we still want to win our games, (who doesnt), but we want to win because we took strategic armies, we played the odds, we were clever, (as a pose to beardy).
So, how do we cope with our new nerfed status? I say take it as a challenge, and a compliment, IG army generals are obviously too good for GW, first they increase the pts to 6 per man (from the big book), and now this, I say we aim to be so good that they have to nerf us again. That said I still think it will be a struggle with these new rules...
Lets review what we have here and this is brainstorming so please add to what I am saying.
1. Meat Shield Gone , (you can shoot through opponents men). I see this as a the ties biggest nerfing.
A (Answer)1: Use much less squads were few casualties would destroy them, ie Heavy Weapons, Command Sections with 4 plamsa/melta guns etc? Dont forget to make sure though that a meat shield is always the nearest squad especially against low leadership armies.
2. Hull Down 50% gone (also tied worst part)
A1: Use more basilisks, always take a MINIMUM of two Leman Russ/Demolishers as backup, when using tanks use lots of tanks to overwhelm enemy AT fire, ex: take lots of sentinals and chimeras as well as Leman Russes? (The problem with this was it was also a perfectly valid tactic in 3rd ed which means it doesnt really answer the question...). Take Enginseers?
A2: Take more tanks that you need to move anyway and equip them with STR 5 or less sponsons to take full advantage of multiple firing to balance out the disadvantage, (pintle mounted stubber on hellhound for example)
A3: (My favourite) Take an army which is DESIGNED to take out his AT weapons within 2 turns, to give your tanks battlefield mastery. This uses our new disadvantage as their disadvantage. Dont like those devastors you say? Drive a chimera up to it and unload some Stormtroopers with meltas into them making sure to allocate your melta wounds to the guy with the lasscannon. Also useful for killing APC whizzing towards you. Alternatively shoot it/them with your Hvy Weapon squads. That Predator annoying you? Deepstrike Stormies with melta bombs and melta guns behind them or take em out with your lascannon squad, (much easier to do now that hull down isnt really happening). Dreadnought annoying you? Charge it with a 10 man squad to occupy it for the rest of the game. Remember his AT is now just as easy to take out as yours. Again this solution isnt ideal but I am simply reacting to a bad situation and making the most out of it?
3. Wound allocation annoyances
A1: I agree that this reduces the effectiveness of the carapce armour doctrine (although arguably not the stormtrooper armour as their purpose has changed somewhat), possibly avoid using it. Other than that I dont think this is as huge a problem as people think in normal squads. If you take 10 wounds (with almost certainly an AP 5 weapon or better), then most of your squad is gone anyway so what if he kills the good one? If you have say 2 guys left then you sensibly run them behind something so he only counts as broken not wiped out instead of being tempted to leave that lone gunner there to be wiped out by a future volley of fire. I think this just forces people to do one equally valid tactic over another.
1. Rapid Fire
C (Comment)1: Against other horde armies this rocks! Think about it this gives you some good tactical options when those horde armies roll in because you can move all of your troops around to concentrate rapid fire on the most dangerous incoming squads, and force all the rest to add a turn of movement, (for example you move a 10 man squad BEHIND another 10 man squad on its left to concentrate fire and to prevent those gaunts from getting into combat with the squad this turn, you still get 2x shots they get the honour of having to spend another movement phase closing up. NOTE this method may require some calculation during deployment.
This isnt quite so good against power armour and above hence my opinion we were nerfed. However options now exist to unload veterens stormies armoured fists, command squads, (and everything if you want in mechanised), onto their frontlines and unload all your specially chosen special weapons into the enemy front line, possibly after a few turns softening up with 10 man squads.
EDIT: The plethora of posts mentioning good drop troop armies (taking advantage of rapid fire rules) are an example of good uses of this rule.
2. Move and fire ordnance plus other good tank rules.
C1: This has lots of uses. Did those Devastators/berserkers/whatever sneakily deploy behind that wood? Oh well move the tank so it can see them? Not quite so worried about losing hull down so the decision is easier. Want to protect an advancing Orgryn/Rough Rider/veteran/etc squad? Move them behind your tank as it moves? Altenatively shield your advancing chimera by pointing the front of your leman russ at the nasty AT device/squad with chimera behind. Want to block the gap in between that wood and that building to stop those berserkers getting through? Park your tank in the gap and shoot something else, even if it dies, (except on a 6) it is STILL blocking the paths and those nasty close combat guys have to go around. Plenty of mileage in this one. (pun intended)
C2: Take lots of sponsons and extra armour. Except when destroyed you can effectively ignore your first immobilised/arnament destroyed results and with extra armour the rest dont matter. Got your demolisher cannons? Rain fiery death on another squad with your 2 plasma cannons. Immobilised? Oh well your tanks were effectively immobilised in 3rd Ed Anyway.
3. Choosing targets
C1: This is also listed as a disadvantage so I wont mention that here. With Ld 10 (Colonel with attached Commissar plus vox caster), you can feel at least a little chuffed in knowing that A: Leadership means something now (even in chaos armies) and B: You can pretty much ALWAYS choose what you want to hit, (chances are 12/13 of getting a 10 or below on 2d6). This means that elite armies will either suffer as you reduce their heavy weapon units/ultra CC units, (ex: Devastators, witches) to ash, while ignoring the rest, or they will suffer because they have to increase the squad sizes, (ex: 10 man devastator squad). Hopefully this makes it easier for you to pick your threats. A heavy infantry army will for example make sure that anyone with a heavy bolter finishes the battle in several pieces.
4. Transport Rushes nerfed
C1: There is no reason that anyone should be able to assault you early any more as they cant assault from the vehicles, add to the fact that they cant use cover very well any more and its an unlucky IG General who hasnt stopped all his opponents APC's from moving next turn (if not destroyed them all). On the other hand we can still transport rush because we never assault from our vehicles anyway, we shoot or hide behind them
Please be tidy in replying, use quotes from here when necesary so thoughts can be kept apart.
good post, nice to see some postive thinking going on
i totally agree with you that the loss of the meat shield hurts the IG the most, but imo, it's a move in the right direction for 40k as a whole. no more one way bullet streets!!
bassies, you know i'm taking as many as i can get my grubby hands on!
as for the loss of hull down, yeah it hurts, but at least we got AV14 on the front of our tanks, those poor rhinos will have a harder time ... then again.. is anyone gonna use rhinos?
i think your tactic of using your guys to quickly take out his tanks, and then using your tanks to quickly take out his anti tank infantry could work. but we'll have to stick to our guns and focus our tanks on his devastators and not that assult squad zooming in fast!
as for the enemy not being able to assult us as soon, this is true... however, with the increased amount of terrain, we may not be able to shoot them as much...
i think another strategy that could work would be all infantry... however you'd have to use heavy weapon platoons! just take SOOO many heavy weapon squads, so that you saturate the battle field. yeah, you'll loose alot of them, but not after they tear into the enemy! and you can use your line squads to run interference and take objectives
Yes I agree with you that is another strategy I had not thougt of, Heavy Weapon squad saturation. I already play an all infantry army so it wouldnt be too hard to adapt, although if your opponent gets wise to this he can take loads of Heavy Bolters or stormbolters at which point everythuing gets harder...
I play an all infantry list with drop troops and rapid fire bolters just rip apart guardsmen.
<img src='http://www.turnsignalsonalandraider.com/comics/000127.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
rapid fire anything, and it'll rip apart guardsmen
Not rapid fire grot blasters.
Heavy bolters have a range of 36. All of our non anti-horde weapons are range 48. So loading up on lascannons, missile launchers, and autocannons would effectively give your army a 12" range advantaege over a lot of enemies. Of course, frag missiles and enough autocannon shots can be a pain, but I don't think its as bad as getting sprayed with 3 heavy bolters.
<a href='http://generalnukeem.hwcommunity.com' target='_blank'><img src='http://generalnukeem.hwcommunity.com/revalation346x173.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>