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I usually play with Grenadier Vets (I love the Kaskrin Models) or Vanilla Vets, but I'd to hear other input on what is effective.
Here is my take:
Grenadiers: Like it on mobile troops that can get dropped out in the open. Nice to have a 4+ save instead of no save. Is it really worth the 30pts? Sisters are one point more, have one more point of armor save and come with bolters.
Forward Sentries: Only might be worth it on stand and shoot squads, even then maybe for 20pts, not 30, there are plenty of flamers out there........ Snare Mines are a useless add on to the doctrine.
Demolishions: Certainly interesting. I have been experimenting and is nice coming out of Valks/Vendettas but many time the Demolishion charge scatters off completely and I don't need the Melta bombs? If it kills two marines it is worth it......
Anyone use combinations?
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sisters really make grenadier vets and stormies look silly.. even inq. storm trooper allies are better you get ap5 and transports that get super-smoke.
I dont agree that forward sentries is as much of a waste as you are suggesting.. if you run a straken list, you can build a nice home base unit - 3x plasma + lascannon + forward sentries is a 3+ cover firebase that will hold your home objective nicely.. if you combine with straken to get counter attack and then get charged.. you will likely get more attacks than your enemy due to the combination of defensive nades and more attacks.. the usefulness of this is debatable.. most enemies will laugh and chop you up.. but at least against some ork assaults, eldar and some of the lighter armies.. this unit can work.
demolitions is obviously worth the points.. if you have a bunch of men with demo charges everywhere - at least one of them is going to hit something to the extent that it pays for all of them.
the problem with stacking is that none of the doctrines really help the survivability of the troop to the extent that it would justify spending 60 points extra on the unit.. the best your gonna get is a 3+ cover save 4+ normal.. and its not worth paying 190 points for that
Grenadiers are very fluffy, but not all that viable for a competitive gamer. I enjoy using them, but sisters would probably be a better choice. Or, for another 25 points you could get a chimera. That will protect veterans better than carapace armour, and comes with two heavy weapons. It also adds some much needed speed.
Demolitions is most likely the best. A demo charge and melta bombs all round are very handy indeed.
I also disagree on the subject of forward sentries. If you are an Imperial guard player, you are going to take full advantage of every bit of cover you can get, and a 3+ cover save is so very useful. As technique said, it makes for a brilliant home base unit, for an objective that really needs to be held. Snare mines are not useless. When assaulted, Ipmerial guard need every advantage they can get, and snare mines allow them to deny the enemy a few attacks. When playing combat armies, it is almost inevitable that some assault troops will make it to your gunline. Especially when playing Tyranids, as Hormagaunts are sooo fast. Therefore you need to be ready for this, you can't just rely on firepower. You will have to deal with an assault at some point, and as guard aren't too bad against gaunts (they're only T3), it always helps to reduce the number of attacks coming at you. Even if all it does is ensure the vets survive for another turn, and hold up your opponents combat troops.
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I agree with most of it, good summary.
Forward Sentries is overpriced and Vets should never be on foot anyway, infantry are better for that job. If you must have foot Vets, just take Harker. For a few points more you get a relentless HB, T4 FNP to stick wounds on, and infiltrate.
Demolitions is great for having a bunch of melta bombs charging out of a scouting Valk turn 1. The Demo Charge itself is gravy.
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Of the top of my head, it costs about 5 points to give a single Space Marine a Melta Bomb (I might be thinking of a older edition though), so that said, with Demolitions Doctrine costing 30 points for a full load out of Melta Bombs and a Demo Charge: Its worth it if you can get them where you want them.
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I use demolition charges to good effect, but I tend to use SWS to deliver them as it's about 50 points cheaper.
I can see situations where a kitted out demolitions vet squad might be needed to hop in a vendetta and go after a critical termie filled land raider, but most of the time a SWS will do the job.
Would it be smart to combine demolitions with Grenadiers in an air cav list? I know demolitions is a must for the alpha strike but would grenadiers be smart as well?
IN short: No. I'm not sure how many veteran squads you'd run in your air cav list, but if you gave 'em the 4+, that's enough points that you could use to buy another squad of veterans, or put towards an infantry platoon. I'll use the 4+ in friendly games, but I'd never use it in a competitive game. You can buy another squad for that much. Thats 10 more wounds and 3 more meltaguns and/or another autocannon.
Demolitions are by far the best of the 3, all having melta bombs, and a demo charge (that doesn't take up a special weapon slot) is exellent. I do a variation on melta vets with these, jumping out of vehicles with shotguns, a power fist, 2x meltas and flamer or heavy flamer (and the demo charge)
I also really like forward sentries. Infiltrate doesn't mean you have to deploy closer to the enemy, it just means your BS4 lascannon / plasmaguns with a better cover save who also don't let the opponent get extra attacks whilst charging are placed after your opponent deploys his tanks / good save troops. They're well worth it IMHO.
Grenadiers? not so much. I'd rather have a 3+ cover save (it's so easy to get) than a 4+ armour save. The armour save tells alot more in melee, but i'd rather have defensive grenades, or a demo charge and melta grenades.
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