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I guess I'll lay it out straight: I have been collecting SM since 1999(the year) and have amassed a HUGE lot of them. However, I collected them without ANY guidance whatsoever, hardly played against anyone while I did, and seem to have collected a rather large pile of dung. I can't make a winning list out of any of them. I've been looking at bike lists with a sadistic gleam in my eye and a wallet full of dust, but I want to know if I truly need to go to that extreme.
I'm so behind the times on 40k that I really just want to get back into the game with the local shop's gaming nights, and actually win a few games!
I would've posted this in the army list section, but the Army-Builder thread seems to have died, and I don't want this to be pigeon holed into a discussion on "put this unit here". I'd like to hear some tactics, advice on what models to buy, and of course, how I could possibly net a win with this aging collection of marines.
I have to my name:
5 Rhinos- with turrets to make 2 Razorbacks and 1 Whirlwind
1 Vindicator- can also be turned into a whirlwind
1 Predator- all turret/sponson options available
3 Dreads- 1ABR, and all available weapons for the other two, along with the ability to build 1 IronClad or Venerable
5 Terminators- can have either PF&SB or Lightning Claws
2 Landspeeders - standard, with HB or Melta
20 Assault Marines - 5 can be used as Vanguard with Packs
15 Marines with CC weapons
66 Tactical Marines- 6 sergeants, 6 missile launchers, 6 flamers OR plasma guns, 3 Lascannons, 3 Plasma cannons
1 Jump-pack Chappy
1 Terminator Chappy
1 Jump-pack Commander
2 Commanders on foot
1 Command Squad (veteran, apothecary, standard bearer)
2 GK terminators
3 Vindicaire Assassins
1 Inquisitorial Retinue
Codex Space Marines
Codex Black Templars
So to repeat myself: Is there any way that I can build shape this collection into a useable army? Or is it just better to scrap it and go with a Biker List??
you could very easily turn this into a good army. All those tactical marines could be formed into 6 squads of 10 an extremely solid base and more than enough for any point games(short of apocalypse) assault marines are incredibly effective and with the number of rhino's you have the army could also be very mobile(like a bike army) so, yes it could be an effective list. could you post the list you've been using maybe its your tactics or list? How many points do you want as well?
I could try aking a list for you if you want, how many points do you usually play?
The Emperor Protects
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
Now it seems here that you have a large number of bodies available to you. Which is great! "earth" type army would suffice for categorizing the play style. What types of games do you play alot? annihilation? objectives?
If you want to play an objective based game, you definitely want a solid amount of scoring troops. Anything from a 10 man unit of marines, or a 5 many unit of scouts. If you combat squad your 10 man units into 5's, you can have a smaller mobile unit inside of a rhino. With this unit you will be able to deny objectives last few turns. This is a simple tactic, but crucial in any army or playing style.
If you definitely want to deny and objective. I like to call in the 2 x Chapter Master, Vindicator and Whirlwind here. With all this ordnance every general will weep for his troops stubbornly trying to stay on an objective. Plus, this is deadly for any horde army. You can place the terrain so, that your enemy is bottle necked towards you, if no terrain, use your rhinos! Once bottle necked, and unaware, Smash them, "War is all about fooling your enemy to think what you aren't"
If you're interested in hearing a bit more of the tactics just say the word.
i do think you got a great inventory, a this big arsenal allows you to build like 3 small armies or even 2 medium sized one plus all those painting opportunities. just point out point level you want to list all this an more than one will be happy to list you somthing as you demand im up to help out im sure listing all this may be a lots of fun.
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The obvious choice for the models is heavy mech, using rhino hulls block lines of fire and contest objectives - though it can get heavy on kill points.
Depending on how WYSIWYG you play sternguard can add important punch. Lack of melta weaponry hurts you against other heavily mechanised forces though.
I've gathered over time that mechanized armies are the best way to go. However, I can't figure out how to use Rhinos effectively. If I embark a squad, I can flee the area. But then next turn I have to get out, shoot, and stay put for the rest of the enemy's next turn to be shot at or charged. I guess it takes practice, but is there any specific trick to running mobile rhinos?
Anyone that wants to try building a list out this stuff can certainly feel free. It really is exactly like A.Ts "shelf of old beakies and busted up rhinos". If anyone does build me a list and possibly even points me in the right direction tactically, I'd be cool with handing out rep (ooooh... rep)
My typical list has always been:
5 Assault Marines
10 Assault Marines (combat squaded into 5 mans)
Round out the rest of the points with Tac Marines in Rhinos and 2 Razorbacks
My usual tactics with the list are to keep my assault marines and chappy bouncing through whatever cover I can find and then charging into enemy squads that I know they can squish, while my Vindy and Pred hold the center. Tactical squads run hell-for-nothing towards the objectives and try to gun down enemy troop squads to hopefully keep the enemy from scoring anything at all. Once the tacticals are out, the rhinos either stick around as cover/fire-support, or become tank-shockers or living rams.
Frequently it falls apart when they start lighting up my tacticals. My assault marines seem to lack any punch at all unless they're with the chappy, and against most targets they just fluff. If my tacticals hold out, I can squeak a victory. Most of my opponents favor either assault or shooting, and do one of them very well. Since my army is split, they can usually knock down about half of it with ease.
I got out of 40k because it felt like I was always just sitting around and shooting all game. One squad would shoot until it was overrun, then the squads behind it would keep shooting until they too were overrun. It seemed too much like an "I kill you, you kill me" trade, where I always too few effective units to come out on top.
It looks to me like you have a great amount of stuff. All you need is to plan a little more what you want each unit to do. As it stands your tactics mean everything is on the board and will take a heap of return fire every round as you move forward. You need a destabilising unit to make your plan work a little better. If you can make your opponent worry about his own doorstep from turn one then you will have less problems moving to objectives. Also, I've found high mobility fire support very helpful in dealing with alot of situations.
You may, money permitting, want to get a couple of things to help you out some.
1. Drop pods. Just one or two. Drop sternguard (you could proxy some of the Tac units to start) right in the face of the enemy, being careful to ensure they wont get left unsupported for long. This will make most opponents turn all guns on them, leaving the rest of your army alone. Dropped Dred has the same effect. With 3 pods you could do a sternguard/dred duo in turn one and the third pod lands tac's as and when they come in, right onto an objective.
2. Landspeeders are just brill. Fragile but brill. I use the Typhoons in just about everygame. Instakill T4 models (marines, crisis suits etc) and can have a go at most targets whilst staying along way off. I reallly rate them.
Good luck with your future games. It may help to ask a good player you know to do a talked through game, where you talk tactics as you play. The aim isn't to win but to discuss how you would deal with each turn. I think this is even valuable for experianced players.
Terminator armor going critical would be like Three Mile Island only very, VERY angry, and carrying a hammer.
LO rules in a nutshell: Don't post unit costs, be polite, rep posts containing of win.
I'll second what rafis said:
Always be aware of what the objective is when you play. It doesn't matter how many units you lose or kill it's that you're achieving the goal which wins you the game.
Although, to me, sometimes a moral victory is worth more than an actual victory depending on the game and the opponent. Against some friends I prefer to win by an inch and against others I love to stomp their units into oblivion even if they end up winning the game.