Why Sniper rifles? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Why Sniper rifles?

    If you have seen some of my army lists, you may have queerily noticed that I use sniper rifles a fair bit. Why DH would you use them in a competitive list?

    I still love my Meltas and Plasmas, but Sniper Rifles have their place, it is in a sit and shoot squad with a heavy weapon. If I have a Lascannon or Autocannon in a line or vet squad the main target is a vehicle or a monstrous creature, hopefully at range. Meltas and Flamers are definitely out, Grenade Launcher are OK, and Plasmas a bit better but are expensive for line squads especially where you enemy might not be in 24" range. That is why I like the 5pt Sniper Rifle this purpose. It has the range (36"), it can take down a Landraider (I know you'd have to be damn lucky with s3 rending), it is quit good at taking a wound of Monstrous Creatures and it saves points for me to put elsewhere in my lists.

    Does a Sniper Rifle belong in a mobile Chimera? No, of course not, but they do have a purpose.......

    Cheers, DH

    P.S. If you use them with a Psyker squad, they can be nails at pinning Devestor, Long Fangs, Dark Reapers or Havoc squads.

    Last edited by Diggums Hammer; January 22nd, 2010 at 16:21.
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
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  3. #2
    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
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    It's not that they're bad per se. It's that you can't rely on them in an all-comers list. Pinning, for instance, doesn't work well on Marines, most Nids, or mobs of Ork Boyz. And when you subtract those armies from the metagame... not much is left. What they're still good at (killing MCs) can be done equally well or better by other choices.
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    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgoreham View Post
    What they're still good at (killing MCs) can be done equally well or better by other choices.
    For the points, especially as part of a Lascannon team squad think they are the most effective choice. Pinning is strictly a bonus if it happens with other units.

    The question is really what SW to put with a stationary Vet or Infantry squad? While I also like Plasma Guns and Grenade Launchers, but don't overlook sniper rifles as they have range, cheap cost and are multi-purpose.
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
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  5. #4
    Member YounGunner's Avatar
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    kgoreham is right. I really loved some sniper rifles in 4th edition but against a real 5th edition army they won't have many targets in the first place. (They are technically a threat to transports but only technically) A way to put it in perspective, fluff wise, is that in the conventional warfare that is your average 40k game you aren't likely to even notice that occasional bullet or two that snaps past you when all of that ordinance is landing all around you. Even if you notice it, it is unlikely you know where it's coming from so peoples reactions to it vary greatly. Sniper rifles should be used sparingly if at all.

  6. #5
    Senior Member slobulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer View Post
    it can take down a Landraider.
    No, it can't. Sniper rifles are unable to scratch AV 14 and 13, and only have a very small chance to glance anything else. They are one of the worst anti-vehicle weapons in the game. I don't even prefer them for taking out MCs. The thing about snipers is that there are not many of them (up to 4 in command squads, 3 in vets, 1 in infantry squads). That is simply not enough to force saves because most high toughness targets also have a good armor save. I would prefer a grenade launcher in almost every situation. Basically what I am saying is that for snipers to be effective, you need a good amount of them so you have a decent chance to get some rends. When it comes to sniper rifles, I would take a full squad of Ratlings, or none at all.
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    Senior Member Moschaboy's Avatar
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    I could imagine them not beeing too bad in a company command squad with an auto cannon that sits back and jells "bring it down" at some autocannon HW squads. the higher BS of the vets helps with the hit chance and the range is nice to have.



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    I would rather use plasma against TMCs because against them its 4s/3s to hit then 3s to take a wound, while snipers are 4s/3s then 4s then the enemy gets a 3+ save with a small cahnce of rending.

  9. #8
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slobulous View Post
    No, it can't. Sniper rifles are unable to scratch AV 14 and 13, and only have a very small chance to glance anything else. They are one of the worst anti-vehicle weapons in the game.
    This is what happens when you are old like me and forget your new rule book changes $&%&^%&!

    Considering this accurate statement, makes sniper rifles less desireable...........
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

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    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
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    The problem with sniper rifles is that they have no duality. Meaning, you can't effectively engage more than one type of target with them. They a monsterous creature killer, and nothing else.

    "But wait!..." you say. "They have rending! They're effective against vehicles too!"

    Let's look at the odds of that. (runs custom simulation program)

    First, the odds for Sniper Rifles:

    3 BS4 Snipers vs. Ork Trukk ( AV10, Open-Topped )
    Stopped Target Movement: 24%
    Stopped Target Firing: 25%
    Destroyed Target: 12%
    Did Nothing to Target: 70%

    3 BS4 Snipers vs. Chimera Side/Rear ( AV10 )
    Stopped Target Movement: 19%
    Stopped Target Firing: 25%
    Destroyed Target: 7%
    Did Nothing to Target: 70%

    3 BS4 Snipers vs. Rhino ( AV11 )
    Stopped Target Movement: 13%
    Stopped Target Firing: 18%
    Destroyed Target: 4%
    Did Nothing to Target: 79%

    3 BS4 Snipers vs. Chimera Front ( AV12 )
    Stopped Target Movement: 5%
    Stopped Target Firing: 9%
    Destroyed Target: 0%
    Did Nothing to Target: 89%


    And now the Grenade Launcher (Same pts as a Sniper Rifle):

    3 BS4 Grenade Launchers vs. Ork Trukk (AV10 Open Topped)
    Stopped Target Movement: 60%
    Stopped Target Firing: 63%
    Destroyed Target: 35%
    Did Nothing to Target: 30%

    3 BS4 Grenade Launchers vs. Chimera Side/Rear ( AV10 )
    Stopped Target Movement: 50%
    Stopped Target Firing: 63%
    Destroyed Target: 22%
    Did Nothing to Target: 30%

    3 BS4 Grenade Launchers vs. Rhino ( AV11 )
    Stopped Target Movement: 34%
    Stopped Target Firing: 46%
    Destroyed Target: 11%
    Did Nothing to Target: 47%

    3 BS4 Grenade Launchers vs. Chimera Front ( AV12 )
    Stopped Target Movement: 16%
    Stopped Target Firing: 25%
    Destroyed Target: 0%
    Did Nothing to Target: 70%

    As you can see, the Grenade Launcher's performance in all AT categories is almost 3x that of the Sniper Rifle. To this, you can add the fact that against the typical monsterous creature toughness of 6, the Grenade Launcher will also wound on a 4+, just like the Sniper Rifle.

    The SR's only real advantages over the GL are it's range and the 1-in-6 chance of an AP2 wound (AP6 otherwise).

    The GL, on the other hand, has a small blast option for hoards, can fire on the move (mobility!), and has a consistent AP of 4.

    It's a no-brainer for me. The Grenade Launcher has the duality that the Sniper Rifle lacks.
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