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My friend plays eldar and I lose to him almost everytime, I'm sure this is my tactics because i have used a variety of lists multiple times and I still can't win. Strangely, he usually runs a gunline force, which seems to be out o date in 5ed.
Anyway, his army list at 1500 is something like:
Eldrad (sometimes small seer council)
Maugan ra/Avatar/ farseer (fortune and guide usually)
10 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians with a bright lance
Sometimes scorpions or spiders
2 Squads of Dark reapers (sometimes replaces a squad with warwalkers with starcannons/ eldar missile launchers/ bright lance.
Wraithlord, sword and shoulder weapon (AT)
Other stuff that I can't remember or that varies.
When I played a mech list the few anti-tank weapons he has pop a few and then when i get close = singing spears and cc against vechiles death. My troops then get dark repeared.
Non-mech=dark reapers and star cannons
Shooty = outshooted
Drop pod, thiI expected this one to do awesome but I coudn't get past fortune during shooting and then got hit by nearly his whole army, got tabled.
I think the main reason that I can't win is that every unit is fortuned (2 per player turn by eldard and an extra on each player turn if another farseer). I tried to negate this with librarian but all his powers were negated (runes of warding), his hood only stopped half the powers at the most and he was a priority target so got shot.
Also my friend is freakishly lucky at 5+ svs (guardian cover, etc. etc.) and tempest launcher with crack shots doesn't let sm suvive.
Is any one experienced at beating eldar powers or a list like this. If so please post help. Thanks
Well, why do you intend to come close then, if you say yourself that the problems start as soon as you close in on him? His army only has three troops choices, two of them very fragile. And his army is rather immobile. It's only natural you can't win if you invest into mobility (points that he only invests in stationary firepower) but only use that mobility to close in on him, playing to his advantage. Why don't you go into hiding and or try to gain superiority at range?
Two thirds of all games should be objectives games. So he's bound to move about the battlefield at some time. If you just hide and wait for him to make a move I'm sure you could accomplish much more. Try to kill off his troops choices - he needs those to win objectives missions. A whirlwind would be perfect. Incendiary ammo ignores armor and cover on both guardians and rangers while still wounding on a 3+ with a large blast template. That is awesome. Normal whirlwind ammo can also deny the dire avengers their armor save and also cover as long as they aren't within area terrain (due to cover being measured from the center of the blast marker in the case of an indirectly firing barrage weapon). And the whirlwind can do all that from complete hiding! Try it...
Also: his dark reapers have pretty good range, but their weapons are of relatively low strength, so not very dangerous for vehicles. The bright lance is a bit short-ranged. So at 48" you could gain superior firepower and all the more force him to come towards you. Try many many missile launchers, particularly mobile ones who can pull back when he advances and still shoot him. Typhoon landspeeders come to mind, but predators are fine too. (And again - don't forget the whirlwind.) Krak missiles are perfect for downing the avatar and wraithlord (and any warwalkers).
Against the psychic powers you may want to try out an allied inquisitor. He's cheaper than a librarian and his psychic hood has no range limitation. You could keep him in the back and in safety and still force almost half of the Eldar's powers to fail.
If those tips weren't useful to you please explain how a typical game between the two of you goes. Tell us who deploys in what way and who moves what where when, etc. Then we can pinpoint weak links in your tactics and provide additional advice.
Red Archer knows his stuff and I agree. Another concept to think about is to make him play your game as opposed to playing his. Decied what units you are going to take and why. Think objective and think what a certain unit will do for you on the battle field. Plan what will take objectives/contest, what will assist that process and what will do killing/distraction.
Typhoons are great. 2 missile shots plus heavy bolter per turn. They are lethal, can be kept at a distance and can find targets with ease.
A drop pod or two will give him thinks to think about. You both set up, you see where his reapers are (be great if they are on or near an objective) and drop a sternguard unit on them or even a tac unit. 10 bolters on rapid are lethal. I'm not suggesting this is the best tactic all the time as each game is different but the concept of destabilising an opponent is very important. Make him focus his efforts on something that is important but can't actually win the game. Give him something he can't ignore. Sternguard or terminators in his back line will run amock unless he turns valuable resources to deal with them.
Heavy flamers also have a very good place in your army against soft and squishy eldar.
Thanks, the problem with droppodding is that it seems to do nothing.
A tin bit of really quick maths for sternguard against reapers, lets say using AP3 rounds.
10 sternguard = 6, 2/3 hits
3s to wound = 4 (maybe 5)
4+ cover (he always puts them in cover) with rerolls = one dies?
35 pts killed by 285pt unitwho then get reapered or charged by counter-assualt meaning i've silenced one guns.
However, the waiting for him is a good idea, if he takes a rocket on his reapers he hasn't got a tempest launcher and if he doesn't then my transports wokr, thanks. I'm planning on investing on a whirlwind as they sound cool. I've also heard good stuff about the landspeeder typhoon, may look into them.
His two deployments are
a) 2 Straight lines, eldrad in the middle, mic in the counter assualt units to cover al army, trys and gets as much in cover as possible.
b) smaller shooting line, moves avatar, wraithlord and sometimes guardians up, scorpions infiltrate, sometimes takes a wave serpent for DA when doing this.
Thanks for comments so far, I'll try them out as soon as I get some new stuff and see how they go.
p.s. another problem with this list is that the he has got units that like to advance and if they don't die my line sometimes gets killed, however this was before i went mech so transports will probs help with that.
When facing an eldar army like this i use a Predator with chronos side sponser heavy bolters and main autocannon its pretty much gaurented to kill a squad oif troop each turn. And your right your friend runs a gun line which is out of date only army thats still supposed to do this is necrons. Also i love using master of forge in this situation with a conversion beam which hits at str 10 ap 1 with a blast he cost 120 pts and it shoots up to 72 inc Also if your playing defensive game you can bolster defenses of one piece of terrian around you say the terrian is 3+ cover it goes to 2+ and he can fix tanks.
O and to add on to what red archers saying you can get a null rod which makes any squad he joins immune to all physic powers. making the inquisitor cost 40 pts.
Last edited by SergeantTelion; February 1st, 2010 at 21:30.
Space marines 6 dread army Wins: 4 ties:2 Loses:7 Modified Standard nilla marines Wins:37 Ties:8 Loses 42 Daemonhunters Wins:3 Ties:0 Loses:1 Full assualt concept army wins: 6 Ties: none Loses: 2
Squad pods in and combat squads most of the time. Pod placed so as to minimise return fire and/or slow assaulting troops down. Heavy flamers open up with 3 bolter guys and firing Heavy Flamers. That will be 6 HF hits wounding on 2's and potentially 6 poison round shots wounding on 2's. That will be 10 hits using maths and stats with 1 or two failed wounds leaving 8 or 9 wounds. A three man Reaper team is gone.
If the other combat squad jons in then they have had it. However, they tend to shoot up armour or a Wraithlord or an Avatar really easy. Lets say a Wraithlord is the target. You colud fire all poison rounds hitting with 7-8 rounds wounding on 2's. That'd be 6 saves to take. Couple that with a Las cannon or two and its gone.
Finally, tactics. Maths and stats are one thing but application of pressure and psycology are another. Lets say the squad killed some stuff but after turn 3 they were all gone. Many might say, 'well they are just rubbish'. They are if you used them badly but if they meant that your opponent had to use large ammount s of valuable resources to get rid then they served a great purpose. That of making the enemy ignore the rest of your army. I also tend to stick a Librarian with mine who has Gate and the template power (forgot it's name). Means they can jump about upto 24" and template all those soft units.
That explains a lot. My local GW is half an hour away so we tend to play on my board and I've been poor since I started it, luckily I have started to amend this with proxy terrain until i make/buy more.
On another note: Are vindicators worth it here, I normally take a few in my other lists and they do well, especially as a scare factor?
Fast attack wise, what is the best options. At the moment I have 5 assualt marines, flamer and powerfist; a 5 manvanguard all with twin-linked lightning claws and sergeant with thunder hammer (315pts I'm guessing its not this one) and some attack bikes with multi-meltas. Planning on getting some landspeeders
If it helps we play 1500-2500pt games on a 6x4 board, with mountain in one corner, small fort in other and river throught the middle. Bastion, homemade buildings and cardboard for moveable terrain. (All this is going to be junglefied so tactics for utilising cover against his list would be greatly appreciated).
Thanks for all the help so far and I hope you can be willing to keep sending more.
p.s. the reaper squad is almost always fortuned so 8-9 wounds only kill two and he usually runs squads of 5. But as you pointed out there good against MCs etc. so I'll try and get them a drop pod or/and a libby with gate
Last edited by Sancraer; February 1st, 2010 at 22:06.
AP 3 3+ save
So almost 9 men would be killed, plus the pod
So a total of 8.94 kills against the 5 man dark reaper squad. You could combat squad the sternguard and try to hit both units, even if 1 or 2 survive that's a hell of a lot of his firepower gone.
The Emperor Protects
Last edited by kevin vanrooyen; February 2nd, 2010 at 00:24. Reason: ...almost 9 men...
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
Check the rules on this, but I think if the Libby is close enough to his beardy warlocks of old age then they have to ask your libby permission to use their powers. Not got my codex with me but I think he has a chance of stopping their powers working. I may be getting 4th and 5th mixed up mind.