Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
With Space Wolves now having established themselves and Blood Angels on the horizon, it seems both are able to trump regular Codex: SM armies in most aspects. Both have superior troops (Grey Hunters and Assault Squads vs Tactical Squads) with possibilites of upgraded elite troop units (Wolf Guard and Sanguinary Guard). Both armies also have access to many of the same units and vehicles, with some extras. Blood Angels still get Sternguard and then some, for example.
A few months ago I started building a Raven Guard army and I have become somewhat dismayed with the fact Blood Angels are able to field much better Assault-heavy forces. We've got, what, Shrike? Great, I've just paid 200-odd points for Fleet when Blood Angels get Fast Rhinos, jump pack transports and Assault Squads as troops.
Is there anything that Codex: SM armies can do better? Some army types that still hold strong?
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Bike armies being that viable choice. Help me out here, rekindle my faith. I don't want to succumb and just treat my RG as counts-as BA.
My take on it is that before the latest SM Codex came out GW thought SMs needed a bit of a nerfering. After the release they felt they had done a good job, except troops choices, which they had over-nerfed, especially for 5th ed. Now looking at Wolves and BAs they introduced powerfull and fun units, but at a cost. They did give you much more bang for your buck on troops choices to make them more competitive for serious games.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Bikes and the characters are the only major reasons I can think of for playing vanilla marines any more. Everything else that makes vanilla distinct/superior compared to BA just isn't that good.
I don't actually think SW wolf guard are really problem, they're expensive. It's weird, SW seem definitely better overall, and yet I have trouble making an absolutely better list out of them.
Vanilla marines shooty bikes are still the best. Also the command squad on bikes is one of the hardest, fastest units out there, significantly better than similar unit made of wolf guard.
Many people like the Master of the forge with the conversion beamer.
Only vanilla marines get ironclads, and iron clads are no joke.
Vanilla marines get combat squads, SW don't, that can be quite useful
Vanilla marines get scouts as troops.
Thunderfire Cannons. I'm the only person where i play that uses them and I run 2 at a time. Great against Horde armies, however my love of them isn't enough to hold me back from going to the BA side of the force. (Keeping in mind the blood angels have always been my favorite chapter and i'm not just a bandwagon nut)
In the Castle of Pain on a Mountain of Skulls I sat on a Throne of Blood. What was will be, what is will be no more. Now is the season of Evil!
- Vigo the Carpathian
Well I dont think WG are that expensive...still less expensive and just as effective as SW termies, and being able to attach one into a squad also proves useful by adding another powerfist and/or an extra attack to the equation. I dont play reg SM and havent since 3rd ed and quite honestly dont think that the few perks they have make them as effective as other SM chapters especially against those chapters should they square off. Its kinda sad too because it was fun making my own chapter with the different perks and negatives they were alotted.
Those Blood Angels sure are tempting, especialy for a Raven Guard Chapter. They're pretty similar styles of army and the Blood Angels certainly do get alot of tricks up their sleeve.
So do the Vanilla Marines though, Cheaper stuff, cheaper tanks, Relic Blades, Fleet (shrike)
The problem with using the Blood Angels list is that all the nasty stuff is pretty blood angel specific so you'd have trouble blagging it in a Raven Guard army. Sanguinerary priests for example, characters, Red Thirst, Baal Predators etc.
1.) So your Chaos Space Marine friends have something (easy) to slaughter.
2.) Because, the only way you're going to come out of this feeling good about your army is if you decided that you really, really want to be a Raven Guard player. Sometimes, it's about love of the fluff rather than the rules (sadly). When I started playing 40k, I played Thousand Sons, most people told me they were a joke and sometimes they'd only half-heartedly agree to play a game against me as they thought it was a waste of time. But after a lot of practice, I started winning some, then more. It's a great feeling of satisfaction to win with an under powered army. But really, you'll only get through this with pride in your colors. Because you're doing the Raven Guard the right way, not the easy way - and you'll become a better player for it.
I don't know why you chose to play the Raven Guard, but I know for fluff the reason I find them so attractive as a Chapter is for two reasons. One, their kind of like the loyalist version of the Alpha Legion, whose tactics and method of warfare I find interesting. And two, they are the answer to prayers of the Imperial citizenry. They aren't the loud and proud crusading SM chapter that comes down, kills the biggest thing around and calls it a glorious win. They're the saviors of the Emperor that step out from the shadows to protect those who had no idea that the Emperor was already watching over them. Like the Salamanders, the Raven Guard are at least partially still aware of what they should be fighting for - the people of the Imperium. I love the quotes about how IG fellas pray and hope that the Raven Guard come flying from the night sky to save them from the enemies of the Imperium, very cool. I won't go into tactics, but the fluff is very nifty, they are sort of like a hybrid of the Night Lord and Alpha Legion philosophies.
Anyway, I hope this helps. All I can really say for sure, is that if it's what you want, don't worry a whole lot about effectiveness and yadda yadda. If you have fun playing SM as they currently are, then don't stop collecting the Imperial Ninjas.
And besides, you can always just buy the Blood Angel codex and try it out from time to time if you're feeling down about losing (if you don't get better anyway) or just want something different to play. The beauty of painting them Raven Guard is that you can justify playing with either codex, if you repaint and go Blood Angel, not so much.
Last edited by hotspike18; March 23rd, 2010 at 19:00.
"If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."