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People only seem to use squadrons for their tanks when they are absolutely forced to. I have been thinking about squadroning my tanks and the idea is growing on me.
I think squadrons of two tanks would work best. The best feature of squadroning is that you get to use squad rules for cover, meaning if 50% of the unit is in cover the whole unit gets a cover save. This is cool because you can use intervening terrain to block LOS on one of the squadron. Now that may be commonly known but I just thought of it and I think it's pretty neat.
For example, say there are anti tank weapons on the two flanks of the enemy army. By positioning a pair of squadroned Russes on either side of a small building, wall or hill you can set them up so the AT weapons can only get a clear shot on one Russ. That means 50 % of the unit is in cover and the whole squadron gets 4+ cover saves (pg22), something like this:
(green is the intended target and red would be AT units)
No cover? Well you could always slot a Chimera in the gap instead
The #1 downside of using a squadron is that you have to fire both tanks at the same target, however it is worth remembering that you fire all a squadron's weapons together and then remove casualties. This means if you target a group of infantry (primary targets for a Russ) your templates can actually do more damage than if you had to fire them one at a time.
Alternatively you can always place the shots on the edge of the unit and try to scatter them into other nearby targets if you want a wider spread of fire.
The main reason why people don't do it is that you have to treat immobilised results as destroyed, but I think it's easy to get too caught up on this. The fact it makes it much easier to get cover saves more than offsets the negatives here and you do get the effects of extra armour for free too.
So who else uses squadrons? Any other really good reasons why not to do it?
Last edited by Korona; April 10th, 2010 at 16:21.
I use squandrons in my army all the time. That way I can fit in more units like Hydras and Manticores. Also, having lots of Russes is so much fun!
Great idea for the cover though- I'm going to have to use that next time I use my mechinized list.
The only time I'll squadron russes is when I'm running a pair of pimped out punishers, an inquisitor lord, and two mystics to pound deepstrikers full of S5 goodness.
I've used a squad of 2 LRBTs as a fire magnet for my army. Most opponents leave my other tanks relatively alone, focusing everything with S8+ at my russ squad, hoping to do something.
If not those 2 battlecannons 4 heavy bolters and 2 lascannons can usually kill something.
The Emperor Protects
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
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In my 'Ard Boyz list, I take 2 squadrons of 2 Demolishers, all 4 with hull lascannons. I then weave in my Chimeltas between them in the 4-inch gaps. It's a great way to make your Chimeras last longer by not exposing anything less than AV12 to the enemy because the Demolishers completely cover their sides. As far as losing tanks to immobilized results, it doesn't happen near as often as people make it seem. They are AV14, and there are 4 of them, as well as 11 other vehicles. There is so much armored target saturation and the enemy is suffering such horrendous casualties that their anti-tank weapons get spread very thin, very quickly. It is rare for all 4 of my Demolishers to be destroyed during a game, and they always cause massive destruction and eat up a LOT of fire.
Last edited by slobulous; April 11th, 2010 at 03:49.
I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ
p. 64 "use the rules for vehicles to determine if each squadron member is in cover (ignoring other members of the squadron, as if they were not there), and then the rules for normal units to work out if the entire squadron is in cover or not."
So, you decide whether or not 50% of the unit is in cover, and you decide THAT by determining if one or more of the vehicles is obscured by 50% or not.
"All I know is a door into the dark" -- The Forge, Seamus Heaney
You do raise a good point, but for ==Me==, squadrons are only if you are short on FOC slots. Tanks in a squadron are forced to shoot the same target, so you can only hurt 1 unit as opposed to 2. Over a 6 turn game, that's 6 vs 12. Pretty big deal there. Squadrons get ganked by immobilized = destroyed, meaning AV14 can be destroyed by S8 and glancing hits come back into play, 4th ed style. It makes dozer blades almost essential, because I don't want to outright lose an entire tank on a single roll if I can help it. The last big thing is your opponent's target priority gets easier. Do I split fire on each one as opposed to just shooting the squadron. Fewer targets = easier time picking them.
At larger point levels or with certain units like Sentinels or Hydras, squadrons aren't so bad because the benefits of more armor, more shots, and the like are largely mitigated by the fact that you can fit in squadrons as well as lots of targets.
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That's a very theoretical maximum. My experience is that Russ squadrons rarely get more than one 'kill' result against a vehicle in a volley, and when firing at infantry Korona's point about allocating more wounds when firing simultaneously is game-changing; that's how I put wounds on powerfist sargeants and meltagunners. Fire one Russ at a time and you'll almost never push through the grunts to the hidden professionals.Tanks in a squadron are forced to shoot the same target, so you can only hurt 1 unit as opposed to 2.It takes an average of 36 krak missile hits to glance-kill a squadroned Russ, assuming no cover. That isn't a significant threat. And how is enemy target priority easier? They'd be firing at the Russes anyway.AV14 can be destroyed by S8 and glancing hits come back into play, 4th ed style.Not only can you get cover, but you can also use a 'whipping boy' tactic and assign the first pen/glance result from every enemy volley to a specific tank even if it wasn't actually visible to the enemy. Since Russ armor is heavy enough that multiple damage results from shooting are rare, you'll almost always have at least one unshaken Russ in the squadron.Originally Posted by Axle_Gear
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Good points Intrepid. Something that I hadn't considered is that a shot from a Demo or Russ will insta-kill most space marine HQs. Demolishers are even more intimidating since they are AP2.
Another cool fact about squadrons is that the enemy will have to use the closest unit's orientation when determining AV. Even if you are in the open and away from cover you can shut down flankers by positioning your tanks to all face the nearest AT threat.
Personally I love using the Russ as a fire magnet because it means the Chimeras are safe. The immobilised = dead ends when the squadron is down to one tank too. Any singletons will be back to normal so in a squadron of two you are only at risk for the first tank anyway.