Welcome to Librarium Online!
With the current rules making transports "king", I was wondering if a horde-like force (other than orks) is still possible.
I like the look and feel of the Catachan Jungle Fighters ( I enjoy war movies - old and current ), and was thinking of creating a force that closely follows their background fluff.
There may be a lot of heavy weapon teams, choice troops in chimeras, and maybe some hellhounds (or variants). I guess I could add Russ with flamers. Just not sure on any of it.
I like the valkyrie, and its uses/rules in the game, but I'm put off by its shear size. I just wouldn't know the first thing about carrying that thing around ( I walk with a cane as it is ).
Also, when and where should I use the vox? My dad was a communications officer in Vietnam, so I thought it would be cool to add some to my force.
Thanks in advance.
Unless you're a hardcore tournament player, if it seems fun it probably will be. The swarmey IG list is perhaps not the most competetive, but it can certainly still work.
Use some tarpit units like conscripts and Sentinels to slow down the enemy front line. Use them to screen some counter-attack units like Ogryns or Rough Riders if you're feeling the need (Catachans on Cold Ones look great if you wanna do some conversion). Standard infantry squads for grabbing objectives. HWS for ranged support. Mortars and snipers to help lockdown non-Fearless armies. Without the melta-vet spam you might not have the anti-tank you might like. If you want to keep it swarmey you might need to try and screen some SWS or Vet footsloggers forward, but that's pretty suboptimal.
You'll likely be able to overcome just about any standard type of infantry between templates and blasts coming from every which way, as well as just an overwhelming number of flashlight spam. You'll need to find a way to shore up your weaknesses of anti-tank and anti-MC (which are hard to overcome with S3 spam). Outflanking sentinels and Bane Wolves (I think that's the right variant) might be a good choice for anti-tank if you're willing to break the true swarminess of the list with some light armor. MCs are another question though. If they become an issue you might want to go for missile launchers over autocannons when you can so that you wound on a 2+ vs. T6 and will ignore most MC armor saves. They also have the added benefit of insta-gibbing T4 MEQ characters if you get lucky
Sure why not?
I still use mostly infantry supported by 3 Russes, sentinels and the occasional Valkyrie or Hellhound. It's not the greatest thing in the game right now but if that's what you want to play do it. It'll definitely be more satisfying for you than 6 units of melta vets in chimeras and as many vendettas as you can stand to build. A nice themed Catachan army could be a lot of fun to play.
When you have a lot of infantry on the table it's worth considering Creed or Straken for your HQ. They're kind of pricey but they're good at what they do.
A 20-30 man combined squad with a Commisar or Straken is a great unit that can put out a lot of firepower with orders and heavy weapons or run around with flamers and power weapons and put up a pretty good fight on the charge.
If you take heavy weapon squads make sure there's at least 2 and keep them in good cover. Autocannons are a favorite for these as they're cheap and effective against a wide variety of targets. Missile Launchers and Lascannons have their place as well, but they're usually better off in platoon squads.
A lot of people don't like Vox, but I have a few since I use a lot of orders with Creed. I just give them to my command squads, 1 to a combined infantry platoon, and 1 to each vet squad. So it's only around 20-25 points depending on what I play. I can live with that.
Another thing to consider is where your mobility is going to come from without many transports. So take a look at outflankers and deepstrike options. A Valk or two with some vets or a command squad can be a good option for late game objective grabbing, and deepstriking stormtroopers can be a decent option for tank hunting with meltas or harassing just about anything with plasmas. My favorite outflankers are scout sentinels with autocannons. They can be hit or miss but at least they look good doing it.
Most important of all though is play your army how you want to play it.
There's a lot of good advice here on how to best use this or that, but make sure you don't read into it too far. Then you end up with whatever army someone else likes, not what you like. Hold onto the main structure of your army and take the advice to make it better, not change it into something else.
As luck would have it that's the exact type of army I played and its the reason I started playing 40k again after 3 years off.
I field large numbers of infantry squads blobbed up with a commissar, a versatile special weapon (grenade launchers are great), and sometimes heavy weapons teams as well (autocannons are great as has been said) for the main part of my army. I always bring Platoon Command squads with Vox and each infantry blob has one Vox. With so many infantry squads the ability to use orders effectively is very powerful. 60-90 lasgun shots is more than enough to put a dint in anything's helmet!. The most powerful anti-tank I have are my heavy weapons teams. Most people say they are crap but when I field 7-8 teams with a variety of anti-infantry (heavy bolters and mortars) and anti-tank (lascannons, autocannons, and missile launchers) they are very effective. I once tabled a Chaos player by turn three with them!
As for my HQ I usually have at least one Company Command squad with hanging back with the heavy weapons teams to give orders. 3 twin-linked lascannon shots or krak missiles (or both) per turn can reliably deal with anything short of a monolith. As for my other HQ sometimes I'll bring Straken with 4 flamers or grenade launchers and stick him near the front line. Sometimes I'll take Lil' Hotness my female Lord Commissar with Vet squad or Conscript squad I know will take heavy losses.
Not much in the way of Elites though Marbo is always good and Storm Troopers are interesting though I haven't tried them.
For Fast Attack I have two Rough Rider squad. One is anti-infantry with Mogul Kamir. I don't recommend taking Mogul except for fun. His Rage rule makes him a complete spaz who loves charging land raiders and monoliths and other models he can't possibly hurt. The other has two meltaguns and is outstanding. Every game they either die turn one or die after taking out two or three tanks. I've had them in one game take out both a defiler and a shadowsword super-heavy tank. I also bring a Vendetta because the lascannons really help and being able to zip a Vet squad around quickly is handy as well. Also Scout sentinels with autocannons and heavy flamers are great outflankers while sentinels with lascannons and H-K missiles are rather pricey but decent anti-tank.
Until recently I had no Heavy Support at all. Then I won a single Leman Russ and made it into a Demolisher. Its been handy at times even it if it goes against the theme of my army. The theme is, of course, things with treads can't move through the jungle so we only bring things that can walk or fly.
That's my army and some suggestions. Hope it helps! All in all the army is great fun to play and your opponents will be glad to be playing against something other than the Mech-spam list!
The best thing i have ever seen with horde guard lists is the sheer numbers of heavy weapon teams at their disposal thanks to their infantry platoons, in this case as its infantry horde id recommend taking autocannons and lascannons only. With these guys you would add Creed making this one of the deadliest combinations i can think of for a guard player. Creed can give up to 4 orders per turn and if you keep him and/or platoon commanders next to your heavy weapons thats alot of "bring it down" and "fire on my target" orders that will literally shred your opponents infantry and armor/monstrous creatures. To fit the rest of your catachan themed army this is what i would recommend:
As I said use Creed to give out alot of orders to your heavy weapon teams to take down armor and infantry. With the veterans in this squad id recommend grenade launchers or plasma guns as you want to keep them by the heavy weapons teams so they need range. For fluff you could throw in a Master of Ordnance to mix things up and to fit the Vietnam fluff of calling in "airstrikes" on enemy positions.
Here i would only recommend Marbo as he is the best Catachan soldier ever and can be a nasty surprise to the enemy especially when his demo charge takes out a unit he thought was safe and out of the line of fire. However id only field him after you put the rest of your army together as he shouldnt be a high priority unit. Storm troopers though fluffy are to expensive for a horde army.
Here is where it gets fun. This will be the backbone of your list so it should be important to make the most use of it. Id recommend 2-4 platoons of infantry with x2 20 man infantry squads each and give them flamers (for fluff purposes). For the Platoon command squads give them something like plasma or meltas to help take care of any harder to kill units. These guys will be your objective takers so i find it important that you give them weapons they can shoot while on the move. Id also recommend for every infantry platoon you take a minimum of 3 heavy weapon squads and outfit them with either lascannons or autocannons. Since the majortiy of your army will be tailored for anti-troop id go with more lascannons then autocannons, be sure you keep the whole squad the same dont mix and match. Finally id go with a few veteran squads here and there. The one with harker will be a nice catachan touch. Id arm them with either 1 heavy flamer and 2 melta or put them in more of a firing support role your choice.
Since these will be/should be the only vehicles in your entire army there are two ways you can go about this. First use three squads of 9 regular scout sentinels armed with autocannons. With these guys you can outflank and shred some light armor and take down some infantry. Since they are only a BS of 3 more shots are better here. The other option is to run some 2 to 1 hellhound-devildog squadrons but keep in mind these are much more expensive and dont really fit the infantry company feel.
Since points are a factor (guessing your going to 2,000pts.) the only thing i would remotely recommend here is some artillery. Since you want to be running an infantry company type list it would make since that they have some mobile artillery hanging back providing cover for the infantry. I would recommend either the Griffon or Medusa at this point for a few reasons. With the Griffon it has a good range (48 ) and can only not shoot within 12 inches of itself, hence why you give it a heavy flamer. The Medusa (range 36 ) is not really an arty unit since it needs line of sight, however its strength 10 ap2 ordnance blast template would do very well taking out infantry and vehicles. Also if you wanted you could turn your medusas into designated tank hunters by giving them bastion breacher shells.
Overall i wish you luck mate as i love seeing armies moving away from the traditional mass chimera melta vets list. Post your army when your finished love to see what you have chosen. Cheers!
Last edited by GMAleron; April 28th, 2010 at 10:10.
Real players go Guard....Real Men go Airborne!
Hey why not, I'll find out Friday if it works, as my only vehicles will be a max of 3 Leman Russ variants, everything else will be infantry, 60 normal guys, 4 command squads, 1 HW squad (lascannons). Looking forward to seeing how they do. I'll post back here either Friday night or Saturday with how they did, though my track record is not great with any army.... LOL