Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
So, I don't play with a particular large group or club and my primary opponent is a close friend that plays Tyranids. Needless to say that means we have to tailor a bit because, well, an all-comers list just isn't that useful for what we play.
The problem is that I really enjoy the look, flair, and lore of Dreadnoughts. Especially as a Blood Angels player where I have multiple variants available to me.
However, almost all of those variants are assault-oriented. And MCs rip open my juicy 100+ point models in a heartbeat. I was wondering if anyone could provide some advice on how to safely and effectively deploy our Furioso, Furioso Librarian, and Death Company Dreadnaughts against a Tyranid force that is likely to be bringing MCs of a variety of flavors?
One main issue is that I don't yet own a Stormraven (obviously, no model yet) of my own so having an effective delivery mechanism is an issue. Though Nid shooting is unlikely to be an issue for Dreads with Fleet running across the board or flying via Wings with his only armor-piercing shots likely going after my Baal and Rhinos.
Really, I'd just like to be able to field my Furioso without the fear of it being totally ineffective so any advice is appreciated
Last edited by Darguth; April 28th, 2010 at 19:21.
Well, some choices are better suit for specific tasks and tackling a monster creature is not what Dreadnoughs are for.
Not getting into the details of the cost benefits of dreadnoughs and what you should or shouldn't use them for, the only other fact I can add is that monster creatures have great advantages over dreadnoughs in close combat, as they will strike first, can't be "immobilized", have a better WS, higher number of attacks, won't be instant killed due to high toughness and will roll 2D6 for penetration.
If you like dreadnoughs, you can try a ML/TLLC dreadnought and shoot the MC from range, but even this tactics is not that effective because the goal of the MC is to be engaged in CC, not going open in the field.
A Furioso with a set of blood talons can destroy whole broods in a single combat round and I can see their use against light infantry and heavy support options, but not against MC.
Just be careful and pick your fights.
Don't under-estimate Blood Angel dreads. Other than soulgrinders, they are IMO the best dreads around. Furioso's AV13 can stand up to almost anything besides carnifexes. S6 blood talons are the nastiest weapons I've seen since Jaws of the World Wolf. With furious charge and WS 5/6 you'll be hitting all except the Tyrant on 3's, and you'd be striking first. Then you have lightning claws that continue hitting until it fails to wound. You've also got librarian dreads who can instagib any of the TMC's. For once, I actually feel that the nids are the underdogs against BA dread-spam.
Last edited by jy2; April 28th, 2010 at 19:26.
Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2
My personal advice against tyrnids is just to run a couple of foot dreads. You have TONS of options as a blood angel to knock out monsterous creatures, so target them first. Against tyranids just get your dreadnaughts stuck in combat with the midl sized beasts for blood fists, as you have the strenth to instant kill them and enough attacks to bag a few kills, while blood talons can wipe out medium sized broods in a single go.
As for upgrades I would recomend either blood talons, or the template goodness of the frag cannon heavy flamer combo. Never estimate putting down 3 decent strength templates then charging a brood. Finally I would think that if a librarian is not present in your list a librarian dreadnaught is a must. Tyranids may not be known wide spread for psychic ability, or at least not where I play, but there are three powers you should really look out for: Catalyst, Leech Essence, and above all Paroxysm. You could not imagine the frustrations Iève seen build when an opponents top unit is reduced to hitting on 5s right before getting multi charged by 2-3 broods so having at least one psychic hood is always a good thing.
Ask me about the Black and White Space Marine on the Black and White Bike!!!
just make sure that you have 2 weapons, 1 to kill from afar, and the other for CC. also when a MC is involved in combat it will destroy it, but, the dread will explode in a ball of fire and kill more of the little guys in the process. little guys are ANY S3 gaunts
Tried out a Furioso kitted with 2x blood talons, melta, heavy flamer, smokes, and extra armor in two games over the weekend. The second was against Tyranids and I have to say I was pretty impressed in that game. I had an unlucky turn where I missed every one of my attacks which only needed 3+ but other than it was pretty solid. First turn he was in combat he killed 7 Genestealers. That was after frying 4 of them with his weaponry. That alone grabbed back a fair number of his points and they had slim chances to do anything back to him.
He's still basically paper against any MC but at least Nidzilla is not as easy to pull off as in the last rendition of their codex, so usually I only see 1-2 in a low cost game and I can just avoid those for the most part.
If anyone's curious the second game was against vanilla Marines and I kept him in reserve to deepstrike, which was an awful decision. He didn't do anything productive. I need to march this baby around.
i regularly use my dred with an AssC/CCW+Flamer. it is a tremendously effective hoard killer. (no saves from either the Hflamer or the AssC) it is common to remove 8-12 gaunts/genestealers in 1 round of shooting. also remember they can help out in turn 1 against the MC's in the list also.
i usually drop pod this guy in to maximize the flamer
Don't forget Shadow of the Warp makes it tense to use a lot of powers in a turn.Finally I would think that if a librarian is not present in your list a librarian dreadnaught is a must. Tyranids may not be known wide spread for psychic ability, or at least not where I play, but there are three powers you should really look out for: Catalyst, Leech Essence, and above all Paroxysm.
Formerly known as SimulatedSnowman
S6 on an MC isn't a guaranteed death blow to an AV13 Furioso. Quite the opposite, actually.
Average (S6) Tyranid MC versus Furioso Dreadnought in close combat:
To hit (average 4+) = 1/2, to Penetrate on 2d6 (8+) = 5/12. 5/24 chance (20.83%) to penetrate per attack. Of which a damage roll of 3+ will do anything significant in combat.
To hit (4+) = 1/2, to Glance on 2d6 (7 exactly) = 1/6. 1/12 chance (8.83%) to glance per attack. Of which only a damage roll of 5 or 6 will do anything significant.
That gives you a final probability of 9.72% per attack for your Dread to suffer a weapon destroyed or immobilized, and a 6.94% chance for your Dread to be destroyed.
While on the other hand, a pair of Blood Talons will shred apart enemy MCs. Just avoid broods of Carnifexes (solo shouldn't be a problem, you have a decent chance of killing it before it retaliates) and Hive Tyrants, and you should be fine.
Also, not to start another debate (but inevitably, this will) I would argue that Blood Grails (Sanguinary Priests and Honour Guard's Sanguinary Novitiate) affect Dreadnoughts as well. So if you get the charge, enjoy your Str7, I5 Blood Talons.
Otherwise Assault Cannons and dual TL-Auto Cannons are still great for thinning the horde and forcing saves on MCs. Which is particularly great if your list doesn't have much competition for Heavy Support.
Last edited by BossGorestompa; May 4th, 2010 at 05:41.
I've recently become a fan of this thing called Dubstep. And you should too.
Datsik & Flux Pavillion - Crunch (Youtube)
Da Moo Kowz is da drinkinest Orks of dem all!