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I was conversing with a friend about marneus calgar.....
And I am really wondering....... Is he worth his points?????
265 points for a model which does not move on the 1st turn (to strike his orbital bombardment) and then moves 6'' every round..... A model which will be capable of going to cc since at about the 4th round.... A model which can be destroyed with a single avenger bladestorm (maybe combined with a fortune)..... Yeah, god of war, it benefits you a lot!
But.... does it really worth 265 points?? More than 2 dreadgnoughts??
Last edited by TheNightbringer; May 21st, 2010 at 12:12.
You don't HAVE to use orbital bombardment..
He affects his entire army merely by being part of it, that's quite nice.
Also don't get what you mean by the bladestorm? He's most likely part of a squad.. So can't be targetted individually from shooting.
You know.. Theoretically he can be killed by a single grot in 1-on-1 melee aswell..
All this said I wouldn't use him myself, but that's mostly because of the fact that he's Marneus Calgar.
Last edited by LastDinosaur; May 21st, 2010 at 09:07.
I think you're basing most of your statements on the incorrect assumption that Marneus Calgar cannot join units or ride in a transport.
The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.
Come, sons of LO! Kneel before Poodle!
Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
Did you know he has a power sword AND two powerfists? He can choose to go at either initiative.
Did you know he has a teleport homer in his underwear? (well, in the Armor of Antilochus).
Did you know he has an AP2 storm bolter?
Did you know he allows your whole army to CHOOSE to pass or fail leadership tests?
I don't know if he is worth the points, but I have used him many times and he rarely disappoints...
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Of course I know about all these and I have mentioned some of them in my 1st post.
However, IF you have honour guard to join him, then he costs more than 360 pts!!!!! More than a ctan!!!!!!
Yes, of course you can transport him, but he isn't that difficult to kill BEFORE reaching cc..
What is more, if you play against armies with lots of ap2 weapons, such as IG and eldar he can be taken out easily with his lascannons or starcannons.
And finally, you will NOT fire your bombardment??? Come on.... Do you think that he will offer more without it, going to CC??
Last edited by TheNightbringer; May 21st, 2010 at 11:32.
You don't HAVE to take an honour guard with him, he can even ride along with a tactical squad if needs be. It's generally not a good idea to have independent characters running around on their own.
If you think Landraiders are easy to stop before CC.. Well.. Then.. EVERYTHING is easy to stop before CC.. But you know it's funny that the enemy will have trouble stopping all at once..
Even if Calgars Landraider gets destroyed, the amount of drained firepower the enemy had to use to do it might be enough for you to win the game.
And alot of things can end up costing more more than the Nightbringer.. Point for point comparison between units in different codex's won't do you much good.
I have no idea what you mean when saying that he can easily be taken out by lascannons and starcannons.. If there's one thing he isn't, then that one thing would be fragile.
All this said, yes it's true he's not the best HQ choice available to the space marines, however he's ALOT better than you make him out to be.
Seriously, what -IS- good in your world..
What -can't- be taken out by enough lascannons/starcannons..?
Oh.. That's right.. There's NOTHING in the game that can't die.
I don't think he can offer more in a single round (even if in close combat) than a large blast with S10 AP1. Logic and statistics say it.
Honestly, I never said it is easy to destroy a land raider. Never did I mean that I'm going to fire all my shots to the land raider. What I really meant is taking HIM out when disembarking and when he is not capable of making an assault. It seems to me that due to his large amount of points and abilities, most players will engage him with something costing less than 150pts (f.e. gretchins, scarab swarms etc) or try to kill him with lots of shots (f.e. 30 ork boyz in charge, lots of tau shooting etc) or fire some strong weapons such as lascannons and starcannons. And then the huge-point investment is dead.
What is more, I never said he is a bad HQ and, as a matter of fact, he can be useful sometimes. What I made clear from the start that I want to converse with all of you is the relation between the point cost and his usefulness. Nothing more, nothing less.
He may be quite difficult to kill but I seriously wonder if he can stand on his feet until making something that is worth 265 points.
Thanks for your time, The Nightbringer.
Last edited by TheNightbringer; May 21st, 2010 at 12:14.
Out of all the times I've used him, I've never tried to use the Orbital Bombardment. I have, however, used Vindicators and they often scatter off the target, but the OB scatters farther. Plus, it is rare to get more than 5 or 6 hits with my vindicator. Marneus Calgar usually kills more by far in CC. I often DO run him with the Honor Guard for three reasons. 1- They are tough and super-killy (a 2+ armor save and available cover saves help them live) 2- I own the models and they look really cool. 3- It is a lot of fun!!
Is he the best choice point-for-point? No. I don't try to min-max my army list and only take the choices that provide the best results. I often just play whatever models I like, and I like Marneus Calgar. For me, he is worth it. Sometimes he dies before he pays for himself, but EVERY model and unit I play experiences that from time to time.
Marneus Calgar is worth it in my book, but probably not for you, Nightbringer. Speaking of Nightbringer, I recently played the Nightbringer. He blew up and killed everyone around him. That was nasty. My death company killed him in CC. OUCH! Only my chappy walked away. :-(
Last edited by 4theEmperor!; May 21st, 2010 at 15:21. Reason: more to say!
Once a Marine, always a Marine.